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Tuesday, January 07, 2014

Protocols of the Learned Elders of Wye

I thought this 2006 article on Haaretz by Shmuel Rosner concerning a conference discussing the survival of the Jewish people was intriguing, both for what it suggested in terms of what the future holds in store for America as well as what it implied about the Jewish perception of the transience of their relationship with America:
Two groups of Jews gathered together last weekend at Wye Plantation, Maryland for a long discussion on the situation of the Jewish people. The first group, which met Wednesday and Thursday, consisted of the heads of 15 Jewish organizations such as the Presidents' Conference, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the Anti-Defamation League, the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations, the American Jewish Committee and others. In the second group were the "thinkers," as the organizers termed them: Natan Sharansky from Israel, Charles Krauthammer from The Washington Post, former Canadian justice minister Irwin Cotler, former Jewish Agency head Sallai Meridor and many others....

The fear expressed that "a real decline of the West, particularly the United States, would have dramatic consequences for the Jewish people," also led to controversy. Brandeis University president Jehuda Reinharz agreed that this type of decline can be expected "in the coming two decades" - but Stuart Eisenstadt was less emphatic about it. He believes the United States will remain the leading power. In all events, it was agreed the Jews "should strengthen cultural links with non-Western civilizations, particularly China and also India," powers that are on the ascent. This is not a question of preference or closeness; it is a question of survival, of readiness for the future.
I am very curious to know if there was any recognition that the observed decline of the West has any connection to a number of the policies that these organizations have supported for the last 50+ years? I also wonder why the targeted non-Western civilizations which are supposedly on the ascent, (raising some real questions about the participating economists given the ongoing Chinese meltdown), would be interested in stronger cultural links given the questionable consequences of those cultural links on the United States. The Indians might be amenable, but Chinese history suggests that the Han wouldn't even blink before taking actions that would make Hitler look like a Righteous Gentile.

As an East Asian Studies major who is neither philo- nor antisemitic, I suggest the Elders of Wye might want to seriously rethink the potential of China as a safe landing place. Japan and Korea, too, are likely out.

The article tends to leave one with the unfortunate impression of rats congregating in order to contemplate the right time to leave a sinking ship. Or, to use a less ominous metaphor, magical golden geese who graciously convey manifold benefits and blessings on those with the courtesy to accept them discussing the right time to stop laying eggs and fly away before being greedily dissected. But regardless of whether one considers those discussing the timing of their exit as rats or golden geese. the mere fact that they are discussing the imminent sinking of the ship should be of no small concern to those who happen to be aboard it.

And before any philosemites feel led to cry holocaust, try to keep in mind that I didn't forge the freaking article. If there is some non-pejorative way to view these discussions by a group of people actively making ready for an incipient American decline, by all means, feel free to share your interpretation. Regardless, it would be hard to deny that the conference participants do not see themselves as being a part of the American people.

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175 Comments:

Blogger rcocean January 07, 2014 1:03 PM  

I think we all agree that Gentiles quoting Jewish organizations is a sign of antisemitism.

Anonymous zen0 January 07, 2014 1:03 PM  

Israel not good enough for them?

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 1:05 PM  

Israel not good enough for them?

*drumroll*

Anonymous MrGreenMan January 07, 2014 1:07 PM  

Would that the Rush Limbaughs of the world who laud Mr. Krauthammer, believe he is a true-blue American patriot, reverence his words, and pass him along to the gullible as a mainstream, limited government conservative be unable to pretend to not know where his loyalty really is, first and always.

Anonymous 11B January 07, 2014 1:10 PM  

I know you posted a link to this article at the wayback machine. But for those interested, here is the original article at Haaretz.

Anonymous 11B January 07, 2014 1:17 PM  

He believes the United States will remain the leading power. In all events, it was agreed the Jews "should strengthen cultural links with non-Western civilizations, particularly China and also India," powers that are on the ascent. This is not a question of preference or closeness; it is a question of survival, of readiness for the future. How should this be done? That will have to be the topic of discussion in the next gatherings already being planned.

Maybe by promoting trade policies that move the industrial base of the United States to China. Maybe by promoting immigration policies that promote immigration of Indians and Chinese.

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 1:18 PM  

Israel not good enough for them?

Thread winner. And on the second comment. Well done.

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 1:20 PM  

I know you posted a link to this article at the wayback machine.

Thanks, didn't notice that. Fixed.

Anonymous Stilicho January 07, 2014 1:22 PM  

Let's play follow the gold

Blogger Harry T. Conan January 07, 2014 1:25 PM  

Vox courageously and fearlessly takes on atheists, gays, blacks and feminists, neo-cons, Calvinists etc etc. The only group he treats with any amount of delicacy are the Jews. Is it because it is the one group he knows he can't f*ck with because unlike the SFWA, they really do have the power to crush him? Fantasy fodder about Vox for the conspiracy-minded.

Anonymous Sigyn January 07, 2014 1:29 PM  

Let's play follow the gold

I knew the Irish were up to no good.

Anonymous Philalethes January 07, 2014 1:31 PM  

Regardless, it is apparent that the conference participants do not see themselves as being a part of the American people.

Bingo.

Anonymous Krul January 07, 2014 1:34 PM  

In all events, it was agreed the Jews "should strengthen cultural links with non-Western civilizations, particularly China and also India," powers that are on the ascent.

Cultural links that will be severed when those powers are no longer "on the ascent", natch.

Hey, it's a question of survival not preference.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 January 07, 2014 1:39 PM  

Israel not good enough for them?

I assume that they assume the majority of Israel will belong to Palestinians when it's time for Wheels Up.

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 1:40 PM  

The only group he treats with any amount of delicacy are the Jews. Is it because it is the one group he knows he can't f*ck with because unlike the SFWA, they really do have the power to crush him?

Crush me? Don't be melodramatic. I am precise about what I write because the mere mention of Jews is enough to send people on both sides into frothing frenzies, philosemites crying Hitler and Holocaust on the one side and antisemites yowling about the Rothschilds on the other.

I have no patience for any of that crap. So, I'm not giving anyone, on either side, the chance to pigeonhole me in order to disqualify me.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 January 07, 2014 1:41 PM  

You know it's ironic. The Krauthammers of this country would call you a traitor for talking this way about 'murika and tell you to leave.

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 1:43 PM  

Apparently both sides think that neutrality regarding discussion of the Jews is a sign that you're actually on the side of the enemy.

Anonymous Stilicho January 07, 2014 1:46 PM  

It will be fun to watch that lot "help" India and China. From a distance, of course.

Anonymous Noah B. January 07, 2014 1:48 PM  

Why do the best threads always happen when I'm all out of popcorn?

Anonymous civilServant January 07, 2014 1:49 PM  

it would be hard to deny that the conference participants do not see themselves as being a part of the American people.

"Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world—only to serve the People of Israel. Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat." Rabbi Yosef, Israel's Shas Party

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 1:50 PM  

Rabbi Yosef, Israel's Shas Party

I can see in the future! I see someone trying to again pass him off as just some obscure crackpot.

Blogger Whiskey January 07, 2014 1:50 PM  

Israel is forging links with China and SE Asia. They have a lot of natural gas to be developed, Europe is filled with lunatic Muslims and leftists and intent on boycotting them, and Israel also has technology. Meanwhile the US as hegemon/global cop is declining.

European military power ended essentially in 1956 Suez. Irrelevant with the nuclear duopoly. Now America is declining, filled with Mexicans it has Mexico's military and industrial power, and is in the grip of lunatic leftists like Europe.

Nor is this confined to Jews; indeed you can see the Jewish organizations at Wye River as merely the upper class slice of Jews, similar to what blogger Dalrock notes is the concern of the elites over the decline of marriage: it destroys the tax base and wealth creation that allows elites to play landless aristocrats ruling a tax base.

However in all cases, Upper Class Jews (note Lubavitchers, Ultra Orthodox, etc. were not invited), elites of the Ivies, Hollywood (see George Lucas and Speilberg warning of Studio collapse because of blockbuster dependency), all see clearly something is wrong. But can't change their religion.

The real religion of the West is not Christianity. It is post-Christianity and it affects outwardly atheistic Hollywood, the Ivies, and Upper Class Jews (none of whom go to Temple or Synagoge or whatever you call it more than once a year I'd reckon). Post-Christian religion has its saviors as Black pols: Mandela, Obama, etc. or Black figures (Oprah), abasement rituals, belief in dogma (Global Warming, Keynesian spending, QE, Multiculturalism, PC) and amounts to an ugly race-based melange of Marxism and Christianity. Original White sin, and Black redemption. Its garbage but people believe it and find meaning in it.

There is no safe haven for Jews (really we are talking Upper Middle Class and higher), or Ivy League grads, or Hollywood people, or any of that. Does anyone seriously think they'll learn Mandarin and Cantonese like native speakers and have prominent or even **ANY** position in China? That China or India or Malaysia or Indonesia or Vietnam or Singapore or Japan or Korea would let them in? Or Russia? Any of them: Lucas or Samantha Power or Susan Rice or Chris Hayes or Rachel Maddow or Alec Baldwin or Matt Damon?

This is whistling in the dark past the graveyard. They won't fix/save the West (because it would mean dumping their ugly religion which they love) and they can't escape anywhere else.

Anonymous Krul January 07, 2014 1:53 PM  

There were several interesting arguments. One was over whether the Jews of America have to worry about the social welfare of the Jews of Israel. The Americans said yes - "All Jews are responsible for one another." The Israelis said no way; leave the social problems in Israel for us to deal with.

There's a good joke in there somewhere...

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 1:57 PM  

I simply can't fathom the China strategy. I mean, the Han don't hesitate to butcher tens of millions of their own people and they've been doing that sort of thing for over a thousand years. If the Jews ever irritated them the way they irritated previous hosts, the Han wouldn't even hesitate before wiping them out.

"Six million killed in the Holocaust? Ah, so. Do you know, we killed 50 million of our own... and we barely noticed."

It's tough to play the guilt card in an Asian culture anyhow. And Chinese humor being what it is, I wouldn't put past them to welcome Jewish refugees from a collapsing West, then settle them right in the middle of the Uighurs just to see what happens.

Blogger Whiskey January 07, 2014 1:59 PM  

Follow up: Israel is also forging links to the Gulf Co-Operation Council and the foreign minister and trade minister have both spoke there to various high-level people without incident, according the FT a couple of days ago. The FT the other day also had (its a far better paper than the WSJ Open Borders Rallyers) a litany of complaints the Gulf rulers have on the US basically reneging on protecting them from the Iranians.

This is a function of America no longer being able or willing or trusted to provide security. You did not see this in 1965, or 1985, or 1995, or even 2005. You see it now.

My only hope is that enough elites wake up quickly enough and get scared enough to dump that new-time religion and return to the America of 1955 which was plenty good enough. Not even a place like Switzerland is safe enough, Italy according to reports is finding thousands more Arabs and Africans fleeing the Arab Spring and African wars, among them South Sudan's civil war, the Congo War (ongoing), Boko Haram in Nigeria, Chad/Niger/Mali civil war, etc. Without military force there is no way to stop the refugees, and Camp of the Saints is basically just add water!

I saw a remarkable statement by a Euroweenie bureaucrat in last week's FT. That essentially Europe has to build up both its defense industries and military spending and military force, because it could not rely any longer on US protection from threats "South and East." Gargle-voiced euphemisms but stuff said that was unthinkable a few years ago.

Elites are starting to get scared. They can see a mass of Muslims might win them more votes but they will be tossed out in favor of AQ head choppers. Yesterday its Lee Rigby, tomorrow it might be THEM. And that they cannot have. But they are so far paralyzed from action by their idiot religion: PC.

For example, in California the other day the State Supremes ruled illegal aliens can be lawyers. So, expect half of Mexico's lawyers to descend here soon. Putting most ordinary, non-superstar lawyers out of work. Through ethnic nepotism exclusionary networks (Mexicans hire only other Mexicans, etc.)

Anonymous JBO January 07, 2014 2:00 PM  

Eh, Vox, there's a lot more in this vein from the aptly named "Jewish People Planning Institute", which is an Israeli organisation but has been led since its found by the Americans Dennis Ross and Stuart Eizenstat. Take a look at the site, especially at these reports here:

http://jppi.org.il/uploads/Asias_Rise_Implications_for_Israel_and_the_Jewish_People.pdf

http://jppi.org.il/uploads/China%20and%20the%20Jewish%20People.pdf

Anonymous civilServant January 07, 2014 2:01 PM  

I suggest the Elders of Wye might want to seriously rethink the potential of China as a safe landing place.

Britain managed to dominate China for several centuries. Their influence continues on in Hong Kong even today. And modern India exists only because of British administration and the universal use of English. Certainly it is not out of the question.

Blogger Whiskey January 07, 2014 2:01 PM  

Oops, FT story about Israel's links to developing nations. Forgot linky.

Blogger napari January 07, 2014 2:03 PM  

I woud agree with this ending comment from Krul:
"Hey, it's a question of survival not preference. "
Its not like Israel has any border friends and its such a tiny country. In the USA were going through a down cycle and citizens will no longer tolerate spending billions on war over in foreign countries. The crazy Arabs are in disarray killing each other... Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, mideast arab tribes are ripping each others hearts out. This was done by human intelligent design. Notice little to zero has been done on Israel's land. So arab against arab, tribe against tribe, as it has been for hundreds of years buys Israel time to form new alliances. Obviously Israel fights with its brains not its emotion. During that 2006 meeting of jewish groups, they were making strategic decisions involving Israels security. Whats wrong with that?
I don't see anything wrong with defending ones lands and theres more than one way to skin a hostile arab so to Israel, who the arabs have sworn to wipe off the face of the earth, I wish you well and good luck! I could only pray to have such an ally by my side when in a fight!

Anonymous bob k. mando January 07, 2014 2:04 PM  

Markku January 07, 2014 1:50 PM
Rabbi Yosef, Israel's Shas Party
I can see in the future! I see someone trying to again pass him off as just some obscure crackpot.



he believes in reincarnation of Jewish souls? i thought that reincarnation / resurrection was abhorrent to Jewish thought?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef#Holocaust_victims

Anonymous DrTorch January 07, 2014 2:04 PM  

Now this gets attention, right after Chinese Tiger Mother and her Jewish husband put out a new book on superior races.

Anonymous Philalethes January 07, 2014 2:06 PM  

Actually, in SE Asia anyway, the Chinese have long been regarded as the "Jews of Asia". I doubt the Chinese and Indians, anyway, will see any need to take lessons from latecomers. The Jews just may be stuck with what they've created west of the Indus.

Anonymous Stilicho January 07, 2014 2:06 PM  

I simply can't fathom the China strategy. I mean, the Han don't hesitate to butcher tens of millions of their own people and they've been doing that sort of thing for over a thousand years. If the Jews ever irritated them the way they irritated previous hosts, the Han wouldn't even hesitate before wiping them out.

Indeed. Although I could see the Indians welcoming them in order to use them against their common enemy in Pakistan.

Anonymous civilServant January 07, 2014 2:07 PM  

I simply can't fathom the China strategy.

Really?

Genesis chapters 41 and 47.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 07, 2014 2:08 PM  

civilServant January 07, 2014 2:01 PM
Britain managed to dominate China ... And modern India .... Certainly it is not out of the question.



Britain dominated China and India because of their ability to project military power. where has Israel projected power outside of the Palestine? could they even do that if not for US support?

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 2:10 PM  

where has Israel projected power outside of the Palestine?

They'll project their pajamas power.

OpenID everybodyhatesscott January 07, 2014 2:11 PM  

You mean repeating "never again" over and over again doesn't actually stop anything?

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 2:12 PM  

But while Asia can afford to be ignorant of Israel and the Jews, the latter cannot afford to be ignorant of Asia. What they need is a long-term vision of their relationship with Asia’s rising powers. This vision should underpin a large, sustained and more generously funded outreach to Asia, focusing on cultural policies and information exchanges, science and technology policy, Judaism and Israel studies in Asia, Asian studies in Israel and more. Israel can and should not do this alone, the Jewish people across the world has to participate in this effort. It will take time because long years of mutual neglect cannot be overcome quickly.

Also, it is clear that politics and national interests will ultimately be the main drivers of Chinese and Indian policies, but this does not mean that Israel and the Jewish people cannot do more to affect these policies.


It doesn't get much more blatant than that. My take is that if you want to sell books, write a novel about Jews in China. The media will take it and run with it. The next Philip Roth will probably be called something like "Asher Wang".

Anonymous Too-Soon-ami January 07, 2014 2:18 PM  

napari: "I could only pray to have such an ally by my side when in a fight!"

heheheh hahhahahahah HAHAHAHAA

Seriously, along whose side have they ever fought?

Anonymous Jack Amok January 07, 2014 2:19 PM  

Britain managed to dominate China for several centuries. Their influence continues on in Hong Kong even today. And modern India exists only because of British administration and the universal use of English. Certainly it is not out of the question.

The British were rather a different sort of people. I don't think your analogy works.

Blogger budbrewer January 07, 2014 2:20 PM  

Rabbi Yosef? Eff-endi indeed.

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 2:20 PM  

For the aspies among us: Not just any scenario about Jews in China is going to make a mint. In fact, certain scenarios will be a very, very bad idea.

Anonymous Krul January 07, 2014 2:22 PM  

napari - During that 2006 meeting of jewish groups, they were making strategic decisions involving Israels security.

Correction: they were discussing the survival of "the Jewish people", which is not identical with the nation Israel; it includes both Israeli Jews and Diaspora Jews.

Note that several of the named participants are US and Canadian citizens. Also, if it were just a discussion of Israeli national security you would expect it to be held in Israel instead of Maryland.

Blogger James Dixon January 07, 2014 2:24 PM  

> Apparently both sides think that neutrality regarding discussion of the Jews is a sign that you're actually on the side of the enemy.

Isn't that the Bush doctrine? You must be either for or against them?

> My take is that if you want to sell books, write a novel about Jews in China.

Pearl S. Buckinstein?

Anonymous jack January 07, 2014 2:25 PM  

Over at Wnd, there was a reprint and video of a lady from Austria that talked about how the Nazis took over Austria. The Nazis strategy used there sounds just like what is happening in the political circus that is present day America.
If this parallel is accurate then I suspect that the conservative right, particularly the Tea Party folk, are the new Jews and the USA may be about to have its own version of the holocaust.
I hope we, the new Jewry, have the common sense to react with appropriate action.

Keep your powder dry and your intent in sharp focus.

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 2:27 PM  

The next Philip Roth will probably be called something like "Asher Wang

Levi Chang?

Blogger larz January 07, 2014 2:27 PM  

The only problem with their "plan" is that everyone, but EVERYONE hates them. When they are f*cking things up in China they will be hard pressed to cry about the holohoax because nobody there gives a shit.

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 2:29 PM  

because nobody there gives a shit.

Better than going "say, that sounds like a really good idea..."

Anonymous Cinco January 07, 2014 2:31 PM  

VD you need a new thread label titled, "Hall of Fame." This one needs to go in it. If this blog exists for your amusement, it would behoove you to organize the priceless threads in one location, for future reference. Seriously, the comments in this thread are f****** priceless.

Anonymous Cinco January 07, 2014 2:32 PM  

And queue Wheeler in 5... 4... 3... ... ...

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 2:33 PM  

The word is "cue".

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter January 07, 2014 2:33 PM  

Seeing some sort of Browser injection virus when I click on Vox Populi comments and some other blogspot sites and maybe more.

Checking to see if it is Chrome specific.

Anonymous TWS January 07, 2014 2:36 PM  

Any chance the last post on the missing gold has anything to do with the Jews abandoning the west? Anyway who stole the missing German gold?

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 2:36 PM  

Wasn't there a recent story about Chinese elites leaving China en masse with as much capital as they could take with them?

Obviously 2013 is not 2006. Have the learned elders revisited this idea?

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 07, 2014 2:37 PM  

Awe you going to Scaabowwow Faiaaa..

Pawswey Sage Wosemawwy and Wye?

Anonymous allyn71 January 07, 2014 2:38 PM  

"where has Israel projected power outside of the Palestine? could they even do that if not for US support?" - bob k. mando January 07, 2014 2:08 PM


Getting and controlling US support is how Isreal projects power.

Anonymous rienzi January 07, 2014 2:43 PM  

My wife's family are Jewish. Hardly Rothschilds, and they don't look any different from any other middle-class folks you see every day. They even seem relatively normal in casual conversation. However, they are as proud as Lucifer, and forced to choose between killing every living thing in either Israel or the USA, would trash the US in a heartbeat. The only ones I have ever known who would trash Israel are my wife, and my deceased father-in-law, an ex-marine.
Personally, I hope the vast bulk of them do decide to leave, the sooner the better, for Israel, China, India, or anywhere but here. Maybe then we'll finally get our country back on the rails, and our posterity will have a future.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 07, 2014 2:44 PM  

Levi Chang?

Bucky Goldstein... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4

Blogger Doom January 07, 2014 2:51 PM  

The ra... geese... had best think things over. If America falls, one way or the other... to the policies they have tried their damnedest to institute by the way, there is no where to run. They will be slaughtered everywhere. They already know their oldest link is out, Europe is downright dangerous to them, even with America having some global power. The Middle East? Israel will disappear without America. South America? They are having problems there. Heck, some of those governments are working with the terrorist nations rather than the Jewish population and Israel when dealing with terrorism directly aimed AT Jews. China? They butcher Christians as is. Japan hasn't got long to go, same with Korea, if America falls or even fails to act.

There is nowhere else. They, and their survival, is bound to America. But... Good luck with finding options. They best start understanding what they find works for them doesn't work for the world at large. So pushing that on the world at large will always end in their... blood. Unfortunately, a lot of other blood flows with theirs, that of the free men they suppress with their notions. Choices... Time... tick tock tick tock.

A 30 year old single woman has a better chance at marriage and a family than they do of survival if neither they nor she changes their path.

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 2:52 PM  

However, they are as proud as Lucifer, and forced to choose between killing every living thing in either Israel or the USA, would trash the US in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, so would millions of evangelical Christians.

Anonymous YIH January 07, 2014 2:57 PM  

VD:
And Chinese humor being what it is, I wouldn't put past them to welcome Jewish refugees from a collapsing West, then settle them right in the middle of the Uighurs just to see what happens.
That's what makes him an award-winning cruelty artist.

Anonymous Anonymous January 07, 2014 3:00 PM  

Bernard Brandt here:

I'll take a somewhat contrarian, and somewhat Biblical, viewpoint here. The Jewish people (or if you prefer, ha-Am Eretz) have dealt with changing political situations for the last three millenia, all adverse to them, from Pharaoh to Haman to Titus to Hitler. It should not be surprising that modern Jews are a bit dubious of "putting their trust in princes", nor that they (with the exception of a few fools among them) are reluctant to put all their eggs in one basket, be that basket Israel, or the U.S., or some new place.

I would agree with Vox that with the exception of a few particularly rich people who are able to find refuge somewhere in Asia, most Asians are unlikely to take to the Jews as a people. They are likely instead to regard them as competitors, with results that would make the Holocaust an afternoon tea party by comparison.

Nonetheless, I am less than impressed by the alleged "Christians" who have been expressing anti-Semitic sentiments here and elsewhere on this weblog (please note that I do NOT include Vox in that number). I would suggest that they re-read Psalm 129 on that score.

As a public service, I will include that Psalm below:

"Sorely have they afflicted me from my youth," let Israel now say--
"Sorely have they afflicted me from my youth, yet they have not prevailed against me.
The plowers plowed upon my back; they made long their furrows."
The LORD is righteous; he has cut the cords of the wicked.
May all who hate Zion be put to shame and turned backward!
Let them be like the grass on the housetops, which withers before it grows up,
with which the reaper does not fill his hand or the binder of sheaves his bosom,
8 while those who pass by do not say, "The blessing of the LORD be upon you!
We bless you in the name of the LORD!"

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 3:04 PM  

Use Name/URL please, Bernard. The point is to avoid multiple Anonymous headers.

Anonymous Anonymous January 07, 2014 3:10 PM  

Bernard Brandt

Sorry, VD: I'm on the tailend of a rather nasty Asian flu that has turned the contents of my skull into batted cotton, and I can't remember the damned password for access to my profile. I'll try not to have it happen again in future.

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 3:12 PM  

Nonetheless, I am less than impressed by the alleged "Christians" who have been expressing anti-Semitic sentiments here and elsewhere on this weblog

Fact one: Jesus was Jewish.
Fact two: every Jew who rejected Jesus from His time to the present is in hell.

Both facts coexist quite nicely for the non raving lunatic set.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben January 07, 2014 3:14 PM  

Vox, where did you read that any jews are going to move to China? The article talked about closer links like trade, which doesn't necessarily imply moving there. As to China, you should get used to the fact that this is now a multi-polar world now.

Most of these jews are basically totally secular jews who derive their identity from the holocaust. Without that, they are really nothing.


Here comes Samuel Scott . . .

Anonymous Krul January 07, 2014 3:19 PM  

Bernard, you don't need a password. Just select "Name/URL", type in your name, and leave the URL field blank.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 07, 2014 3:21 PM  

Markku January 07, 2014 2:33 PM
The word is "cue".



at this point, Wheeler would be lining up behind a whole lot of other commentors. so the usage was correct if unorthodox? ;-]



allyn71 January 07, 2014 2:38 PM
Getting and controlling US support is how Isreal projects power.



yes, but the asian societies are rather more racially homogenuous and far more racist than even the US in the early 1900s. Jewry is not going to find the Han halls of power quite so easy to gain access too as was, for instance, the US Supreme Court ( which no longer has any WASPs on it all ).

Anonymous jay c January 07, 2014 3:25 PM  

It's no secret I consider myself something of a judeophile, but those people have some of the thickest skulls on the planet. This is one of the reasons God's plans take so long to come to fruition: the Jews take so long to learn every freaking lesson.

Blogger Markku January 07, 2014 3:26 PM  

Choosing Israel: The Highest Difficulty Setting There Is.

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 3:27 PM  

The Jewish people (or if you prefer, ha-Am Eretz) have dealt with changing political situations for the last three millenia, all adverse to them, from Pharaoh to Haman to Titus to Hitler. It should not be surprising that modern Jews are a bit dubious of "putting their trust in princes", nor that they (with the exception of a few fools among them) are reluctant to put all their eggs in one basket, be that basket Israel, or the U.S., or some new place.

1. Agreed. What I don't understand is why they keep utilizing the same strategy of attempting to buy the friendship of the king and amass central power over large majorities. THAT DOESN'T FREAKING WORK! It didn't work then. It's not working now, obviously, or there wouldn't be plans in the making to curry favor in Asia.

2. How do modern Jews not realize that is exactly what they're doing by attempting to run Hollywood and Wall Street to their benefit? So many got all bent out of shape because a few thousand Yankee Episcopalians wouldn't let them join their golf clubs, and in reaction, they are taking it out on tens of millions of Baptists, blacks, Southerners, and so forth. Forget about right and wrong, how is that smart?

I never met a single Jew growing up. Never had anything against them anymore than I did Eskimos or Zulus. But I did find it unbelievable, and irritating, that my choices for Senator were the Republican Jew from New York or the DFL Jew from Washington DC, both of whom were contesting the seat of the Republican Jew from New York. That sort of thing really pisses people off and gives the antisemites credibility.

3. I get the "don't put all your eggs in one basket". That's smart. But then, how about "stop trying to change every refuge to your liking"? I mean, is "lay low and don't cause trouble" really that hard to understand? It was astonishing to me to learn how many Europeans, from Brits to French to Poles loathe Jews now. The Italians are about the only ones who don't. Maybe it's justified, maybe it isn't. I don't know the various reasons. But regardless, why give them justification?

I am less than impressed by the alleged "Christians" who have been expressing anti-Semitic sentiments here

There are 300 million guns in the USA. There are what, 2 million Jews? If America was genuinely antisemitic, American Jewry would be gone in an afternoon. Hitler was antisemitic. Dislike for Jewish nepotism and political overrepresentation isn't antisemitic.

I wish the Jewish people well. I genuinely do. But that doesn't mean I want them running my country's financial system into the ground because they think it is "good for the Jews".

Anonymous Stilicho January 07, 2014 3:27 PM  

It should not be surprising that modern Jews are a bit dubious of "putting their trust in princes"

Most of them I observe put their trust in exactly that. Often to the exclusion of their God.

OpenID mattse001 January 07, 2014 3:28 PM  

So American Jews (who also feel an affinity for Israel) are discussing contingency plans predicated on America's decline. So what? They surely aren't the only ones.
Obama's weakness is manifest. Both friends and foes are planning accordingly.

When one is in a precarious position, one hedges one's bets, especially in the Middle East where the price of failure is often death. One of the best examples of that, ever, was Yassir Arafat. Other Arab leaders were vexed by him; even when something was "agreed to," he would hedge and refuse to commit. This added flexibility allowed him to reverse course at any time to extricate himself from a bad spot. This is the usual M.O. for dictators (and Obama!). The side-effect is systemic uncertainty, making future planning difficult and leading to a weak economy...but that's for another post.

Israel is in an objectively provable, weak position. Mainly from its small geographic size. It would only take a few nukes to obliterate the country. The converse is not true with respect to many of its enemies and/or neighbors.

As to the comment, "I am very curious to know if there was any recognition that the observed decline of the West has any connection to a number of the policies that these organizations have supported for the last 50+ years?"
That wasn't the purpose of the gathering, but rather to proceed from the assumption toward consequences.
As to "these policies", are you referring to liberalism or zionism?

Anonymous Stilicho January 07, 2014 3:29 PM  

Choosing Israel: The Highest Difficulty Setting There Is.

You've been a bad boy. Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

Anonymous ZhukovG January 07, 2014 3:30 PM  

The State of Israel is kind of the Jewish SHTF bug out location. At least to the Jewish elite, It is imperative to the that Israel survive and maintain dominance in the Middle East as it is the haven of last resort.

I don’t think they want to move to China or India, but want to use them to support Israel, thus providing some security for Jews as a whole.

Unfortunately for the Jews, I don’t see China or India as remaining viable for long. Both countries have too many serious internal issues and even if they remain strong regional powers I see them at war with each other within the next 20 years or so.

With the assumption that the planet doesn’t get turned into radioactive slag. I see the world moving back to situation where a number ‘Great Powers’, dominate the world, not unlike the 1880 – 1900 time period. The United States, or whatever rump state remains of the former US, may be one of those powers, or not. Who knows, The Republic of Texas may be a Great Power by then.

If the Jewish elite were smart they’d be kissing Vladimir Putin’s ass right now, and working really hard to get Russians to forget how many Jews were also Bolsheviks.

Anonymous YIH January 07, 2014 3:37 PM  

Gee, I wonder why Jews aren't exactly seen in a good light these days?
THE NEW YORK FEDERAL RESERVE
Chairman of the Board of New York Branch of the Federal Reserve: (the most powerful of the Fed's branches): Lee Bollinger (Jewish)
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY
Secretary of the US Treasury: Jack Lew (Jewish), Deputy Secretary of US Treasury: Neal Wolin (Jewish)
THE OMB
The Chairman of the OMB (Office of Management and Budget) from 2009 - 2010 was Peter Orzag (Jewish). It was Orzag who orchestrated the 10 year budget forecast that made 1.5 Trillion Dollar annual deficits permanent. After setting America's finances on its current, auto-piloted suicide course, Orzag resigned in 2010.
THE SEC
The Chairman of the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission): From 2009-2012: Mary Schapiro (Jewish) As of January 2013, the new Chairman is Mary Jo White: (not Jewish, but as a US District Attorney, she whitewashed the crimes of financial criminal Marc Rich, who also happens to be jewish.)
THE CFTC
Chairman of the CFTC (Commodity Futures Trading Commission) - Gary Gensler (Jewish) His predecessor was Walter Lukken (Jewish)
THE FDIC
Chairman of the FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation): Martin J. Gruenberg (Jewish) Previous Chairman of the FDIC: Sheila Bair (Jewish)
THE NCUA
Chairman of NCUA (National Credit Union Administration): Debbie Matz (Jewish)
THE PRESIDENT'S COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS
Chairman of President Obama's 3 member "Council of Economic Advisors": Alan Krueger (Jewish) The other two members: Katherine Abraham (Jewish) and Carl Shapiro (Jewish)
CBO
The Director of the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) is Douglas Elmandorf (Jewish) *CBO provides (concocts) key economic data for Congress.
THE IRS
Commissioner of the IRS (Internal Revenue Service): Doug Shulman (Jewish)
GOLDMAN SACHS
CEO and Chairman of Goldman Sachs (the preferred broker/banker of the Federal Reserve): Lyoyd Blankfein (Jewish)
CNBC
The President of CNBC (America's main financial news network) is Mark Hoffman (Jewish)

OpenID mattse001 January 07, 2014 3:40 PM  

The fact that the alternatives to America are less reliable has no doubt been factored into Israel's thinking. The Chinese/Russians/Indians etc. will do what's in their own best interests. The key for Israel will be finding a way to make any agreement a win/win. Africa is a real-time example that China, for instance, will exploit other countries if it can.

Anonymous LES January 07, 2014 3:45 PM  

As far as I can understand Israel is a people not a place to God. The Hebrews could live in the land God described IF they were obedient and met certain conditions. It was at no time to be exclusively for a Jewish population.

Judaism was radically different after the Babylonian captivity from the Hebrew nation we think of when reading the Bible. Pharisees, Saducees and the Talmud changed Israel.

The modern, secular state called Israel is not the Israel of the Bible we learn about in Sunday School.

Blogger Harry T. Conan January 07, 2014 3:55 PM  

"I'm not giving anyone, on either side, the chance to pigeonhole me in order to disqualify me."

Because none of your expressed views has ever gotten you pigeonholed as sexist, misogynist, racist, homophobic, and a hero of mine because of it.

So, to be clear, although you do subscribe to a conspiratorial view of history, you don't think that the Jews have been working to undermine Christianity by actively propagating the myth of evolution, sexual revolution, civil rights movements and communism?

Anonymous Apollo January 07, 2014 4:11 PM  

Israel will disappear without America.

I beg to differ. You take on Israel, you will be fighting God. Good luck with that.

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 4:11 PM  

So American Jews (who also feel an affinity for Israel) are discussing contingency plans predicated on America's decline. So what?

So those particular Jews are obviously not as loyal to America or the American people as they pretended to be. And Americans need feel no loyalty or responsibility for them. Perhaps you don't think that's a big deal. Many people will disagree.

As to "these policies", are you referring to liberalism or zionism?

Liberalism, Keynesianism, etc. I have no problem with Zionism. I am a Christian Zionist.

Anonymous chedarman January 07, 2014 4:12 PM  

Seems as if the middle east has become Israel's sand box. Sadam is gone and Iraq is a failed state, Gafaffi is gone and Libya is a failed state, Assad is on the way out or will rule over a rump state of Syria. Iran is boxed in. Egypt does not have a real military to speak of. The Saudis and Persian Guld states have no significant military power to wield against Israel. Israel has 75-400 nuclear war heads, and the means to launch them against most major population centers in the region.

Israel can continue annexing land in the West Bank until there is none left for the palestinians, and probably take land from Lebanon and Jordan. Who will stop them? Europe and the U.S. dont have the will, China does not care as long as they get access to natural resources. Russia may care, but they dont have the ability to counter aqny direct action by Israel in the region.

I dont see why any one would bet against Israel's long term success.



Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 4:20 PM  

I have no problem with Zionism. I am a Christian Zionist.

Your zionism certainly is a different flavor than.that of John Hagee or John McCain. Do you simply agree that Israel has a right to exist, without taking that next leap to agree that American money must be spent and blood must be shed to ensure that Israel continues to exist?

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 4:22 PM  

I beg to differ. You take on Israel, you will be fighting God. Good luck with that.

When God used nations to.take on Israel, was God fighting God?

Anonymous Krul January 07, 2014 4:23 PM  

VD, when you say "Christian Zionist" do you mean that you believe the Jews have a right to the land based on God's covenant with Abraham, or do you mean that you believe the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy?

Anonymous Axe Head January 07, 2014 4:27 PM  

Joseph Sobran: An anti-Semite used to mean a man who hated Jews. Now it means a man who is hated by Jews.

Anonymous Axe Head January 07, 2014 4:30 PM  

These days a man is crucified for noticing Jewish misbehavior. Same as it ever was.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 4:42 PM  

Vox...."Regardless, it would be hard to deny that the conference participants do not see themselves as being a part of the American people."

I am not surprised in the least. Were it any other group, I would be a bit disappointed and surprised. The Jews insist they are white Americans when it suits them, German when it is convenient, and "not Orthodox" when ham is on the table. I guess the reason they have survived for centuries is by having very few loyalties or principles and being quick to deny their own ethnic group when they can benefit from it. I have always enjoyed their company much more than they enjoyed mine. (smile)

Anonymous hardscrabble farmer January 07, 2014 4:49 PM  

Every breed of animal has an adaptive stategy that works for them based on environmental and genetic factors. Period.

Humans are an interesting species in that they are the only ones who consciously deny their biological reality, i.e. that they are indeed a species of animal with genetic predispositions. I hate arguing the soul aspect because whether it's true or not it doesn't appear to have any appreciable effect on our inherited genetic predispositions. A Yoruba who accepts Christ as his personal savior retains the same share of melanin as his Kalo Kato counterpart and opting not to wear a kippah doesn't lessen one's chances of Tay-Sachs if he is part of the Tribe.

McDonald certainly opened a can of worms with his "group evolutionary strategy" trilogy, but like it or not it appears to have been based on sound research as well as scads of anecdotal support- the Wye River fete being the latest.

Back when the US was gearing up for Iraq 2.0 I bookmarked Ha'aretz so I could read daily what was being said. I understood who was behind PNAC and just how open they were about using America like that deformed midget did to the giant in Beyond Thunderdome. It's a strategy designed to benefit an ethnic minority who prefers to remain so wherever they may decide to sojourn and it works. The attendant costs to the health of the ethnic majority of whichever nation they happen to live in at any given time isn't any more or a concern for them than the health of your gums is to pyorrhea. Which isn't to say they haven't made contributions to their hosts or that not all of them are in on the script or even benefit. From an evolutionary standpoint that doesn't matter as long as the genetic material makes it one more generation down the road.

Anonymous Hunsdon January 07, 2014 5:02 PM  

Wait, a thread on Israel and/or the Jews, and WHISKEY shows up? Man, I never saw that one coming . . . .

Anonymous Phalluster January 07, 2014 5:13 PM  

It's no secret I consider myself something of a judeophile, but those people have some of the thickest skulls on the planet.
Just wait til you get a load of the Negroes!!!

Anonymous J. C. Salomon January 07, 2014 5:42 PM  

As an Orthodox Jew, I see no conflict between by loyalty to the U.S.A. and my loyalty to the Jewish nation. I am grateful to God and the Founding Fathers for providing this situation, and I will do what I can to preserve this Union.

When the group spoke of “a real decline of the West, particularly the United States,” they were not talking about the U.S. losing its status as the economic leader of the planet. The concern is for the kind of civilizational decline that makes the West unrecognizable: the world of Kratman’s Caliphate, for example. An America so changed is not the America I’ve given my loyalty to—and I’ll be headed elsewhere, anywhere I think I can keep my family safe. (And in a situation like that, Israel is hardly likely to be a safe refuge.)

I don’t think that’s a flaw in my loyalty to America. America is a concept, and my loyalty to the State is contingent on it remaining true to that concept.

Anonymous 11B January 07, 2014 5:45 PM  

Israel is in an objectively provable, weak position. Mainly from its small geographic size. It would only take a few nukes to obliterate the country. The converse is not true with respect to many of its enemies and/or neighbors.

I hear this a lot. But isn't nuking about killing people, not destroying land? I thought most Arab nations, like Saudi Arabia, had large expanses of empty spaces with a few concentrated cities. If so, then it would appear they suffer from the same disadvantage as Israel since it would only take a few hits on major urban areas to effectively wipe them out. They are not like China or the US who have many large urban areas spread hundreds of miles apart.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 07, 2014 5:47 PM  

Being a member of a rifle club I have seen some behavior by the goyim that might be seen as anti-Semitic by the urban Jews of New York but really isn’t classical anti-Semitism of the Hitler types. That is resentment towards what they see as Jewish Politicians always being in the forefront of effort to ban gun ownership by reasonable citizens. That would be the Bloomberg, Schumer, Blumenthal, Specter and Feinstein and many other Jewish leaders, including urban rabbis. The resentment towards these politicians and their efforts to reduce the numbers of firearms in the hands of the public is real.

The issues the goyim have with what they see as an elitist Jewish effort to ban guns goes according to the following arguments (not all the same, varies according to the individual)

1) They want to ban guns from the common folks but keep armed guards to protect themselves
2) They Jews want to disarm Christians, not the state’s police forces as they fear the crowds more than the state, and expect to control the state, or at least have the ear of the prince.
3) These Jewish politicians are utopians that mean to disarm the common people so they can impose their vision of a just society on America.
4) The Jews have a stupid trust of the state and are simply putting dumb trust in the ability of the government to act as an agent of good in all circumstances.

Of course the truth is much more complex, when you have two Jews together you will get three opinions. Many successful Jewish folks are primarily urban based and these politicians reflect those views, associating guns with crime. . Added to this are the traditional fears that the Jews have to the armed goyim mob, based on the experiences of Jews in Eastern Europe. There really is not much of a firearms tradition in Jewish culture, even in Israel. It is a tool to Jewish families and there is not the deep attachment to guns that English/German/Swiss/Scotch/North-eastern Europeans have. Said another way, there are few family/identity association with arms in Jewish families like the prior groups, it is a tool to be used and then put aside when no longer required. As such many Jewish folks cannot understand the deep attachment Americans have to their guns, it just does not compute when you have grown up in a completely different culture.

It would take a very long time to explain the subtleties of why secular urban Jewish people are largely antithetical to widespread unregulated arms ownership, I have just touched on the surface. I can tell you plenty of Jews do not want to disarm any Christians or themselves, there is as much distrust among the more fly-over assimilated religious Jews for the institutions of the state as with any other group. It is simply that the very successful utopian Jews such as Bloomberg are more visible and are so sure of the ultimate correctness of their views that they are tone deaf to the objections of traditional Americans on this issue.

Anonymous 11B January 07, 2014 5:50 PM  

The concern is for the kind of civilizational decline that makes the West unrecognizable: the world of Kratman’s Caliphate, for example. An America so changed is not the America I’ve given my loyalty to—and I’ll be headed elsewhere, anywhere I think I can keep my family safe. (And in a situation like that, Israel is hardly likely to be a safe refuge.)

I don’t think that’s a flaw in my loyalty to America. America is a concept, and my loyalty to the State is contingent on it remaining true to that concept.


JC, I am glad you share a love for our civilization. But can you see how some of us can get disturbed when it seems that so much of American Jewry is supportive of the policies that seem to be killing it, especially regarding third world immigration and cultural norms?

If you feel this way, how are you received in your own social circles? Do many fellow Jews agree with you, or do they consider you a heretic?

Anonymous Axe Head January 07, 2014 5:50 PM  

America is a concept

This is pure idiocy. Everyone knows it's a Jewish ATM.

Anonymous paradox January 07, 2014 5:55 PM  

J. C. Salomon

As an Orthodox Jew, I see no conflict between by loyalty to the U.S.A. and my loyalty to the Jewish nation. I am grateful to God and the Founding Fathers for providing this situation, and I will do what I can to preserve this Union.


See this is where the problem is. Some of us Americans, those with Southern ancestry, don't want to preserve the union. We have nothing in common with godless-progressive-yankees. We want independence from the union and to form our own home land. Something Jews should understand.

Anonymous civilServant January 07, 2014 6:09 PM  

America is a concept, and my loyalty to the State is contingent on it remaining true to that concept.

Are you a passenger or a citizen?

Blogger Joel C. Salomon January 07, 2014 6:18 PM  

11B: …so much of American Jewry is supportive of the policies that seem to be killing [Western civilization]…

This same group of my conationalists (they’re usually not my coreligionists) are equally destructive of Jewish religion & civilization.

Do many fellow Jews agree with you, or do they consider you a heretic?

In the Orthodox communities? What I wrote is hardly heresy, though I’ve borrowed Western language for this conversation. Among my neighbors the discussion would center around Jeremiah 29:7 and related Talmudic sources such as Avot 3:2.

paradox :Some of us Americans, those with Southern ancestry, don't want to preserve the union.

Well that was me writing as a God-fearing somewhat-conservative damyank. I’d rather the Union continued. Persuade me that its ideals would be better preserved were it broken up, and I may come ’round to your way of mind.

OpenID imnotherzog January 07, 2014 6:36 PM  

The Jews have already been hanging out in China, although they were the revolutionary type (like their brothers in Russia and Germany) so they didn't hang around when Mao came to power (plus they emigrated to Israel in large numbers):

http://www.jewsofchina.org/jewsofchina/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=84&FID=890

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 6:37 PM  

An America so changed is not the America I’ve given my loyalty to—and I’ll be headed elsewhere, anywhere I think I can keep my family safe.

That's sort of the problem here. You're saying you have no loyalty to the American PEOPLE. You are loyal to the U.S. GOVERNMENT as well as to the Jewish people.

Of course the truth is much more complex, when you have two Jews together you will get three opinions.

Sam, with all due respect, you keep saying that, but the average Gentile doesn't find that charming or clever. It sounds more like one of those two Jews is speaking with a forked tongue. And one would presume he's the one in the Senate or the Federal Reserve.

I think your point about the guns is an important one. We Americans shot the British who tried to take away our guns. If any Jews try to take away our guns, we'll shoot those motherfuckers too. Not because they're Jewish, or because we're antisemitic, BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS.

Is that really so hard to understand? We don't give a quantum of a damn about "understandable fears of the Holocaust" or "the problematic history of Christian cultures" or anything else. You can reason all you want, but if you step on the rattlesnake, he's going to bite your ass without thinking twice about it.

So, here's a thought: don't tread on him.

OpenID imnotherzog January 07, 2014 6:37 PM  

Oops -- meant to say "they weren't the revolutionary type".

Anonymous map January 07, 2014 6:38 PM  

Whiskey,

The Chinese and the Indians are not going to allow the Jews to move en masse to China and India. The Indians and Chinese will have no problem using the Jews to try to betray the West.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 6:41 PM  

Sam the Man....."That would be the Bloomberg, Schumer, Blumenthal, Specter and Feinstein and many other Jewish leaders, including urban rabbis."

You are being much too nice, Sam.
There are too many Jewish social radicals, communists, social justice, equality freaks, feminists, and environmentalists that we have had to deal with over the years. (Surprised you did not mention Eric Cantor and Joe Lieberman and the fact that 4 members of the US supreme court are also Jewish.)

As a Protestant living in a country founded by Protestants, I am anxious that there are no Protestants on the US supreme court.....only Jews and Roman Catholics. (Don't begin to tell me that will never make a bit of difference or that there are no qualified Protestant jurists.) Yes, there is a disproportionate amount of power and influence in Jewish hands for an ethnic group that is less than 2% of the population, and shrinking.

Anonymous cheddarman January 07, 2014 7:00 PM  

The idea of the Jews being assimilated into India or the Indian diaspora is stupid as well as hillarious. The Brahmins would never allow another another group to compete with them for control over India. History makes that very clear.

This idea is even more hillarious when you consider that India has the worlds second largest population of moslems.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 7:04 PM  

J. C. Salomon

As an Orthodox Jew, I see no conflict between by loyalty to the U.S.A. and my loyalty to the Jewish nation. I am grateful to God and the Founding Fathers for providing this situation, and I will do what I can to preserve this Union.

Mr. Salomon....I can understand your loyalty to the State of Israel, but I believe I can summarize the feeling of very many Americans on this subject when I say WE are not willing to destroy our own country in the defense of Israel. We suspect that Israel will fight to the last American and expect the US government to pay for it. Our natural affection for Israel is limited; just as it is for South Korea, or Japan, or Germany, or the UK. Not many people are interested in nuclear war with any other great powers in this world so that the Jews can build the third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem or to guarantee the integrity of borders that have shifted many times.

Fortunately or unfortunately, when the South again makes an effort for independence, my best advice to you would be to stay back out of the way and let the founding stock sort this out among ourselves. Else we may look upon your enthusiasm for Union as hostility. (And yes, Jewish gun control advocates will be rebuffed with the same contempt and force as non-Jewish gun control advocates.)

Anonymous Red Comet January 07, 2014 7:15 PM  

The fear expressed that "a real decline of the West, particularly the United States, would have dramatic consequences for the Jewish people," also led to controversy.

Their secular Jewish buddies in Hollywood helped destroy Western Christian culture so what are they complaining about now?

Anonymous J. C. Salomon January 07, 2014 7:29 PM  

VD: You're saying you have no loyalty to the American PEOPLE.

My take on “American exceptionalism” is relevant here: What creates the American people are the American ideals; the two are inseperable. Without them you have a random collection of English, Irish, German, Chinese, Russian, French, Italian, Jewish, Spanish, Indian, Polish, Scotts, African, Scandinavian, etc., etc. expatriates (with about 1% admixture of aborigines) who happen to live in the same ten million square kilometers: to whom would I then be loyal?

(The culture that replaces Americanism in America, perhaps—but most plausible projections suggest that would be a rather unpleasant culture. I reserve the right to decide then whether such culture deserves my loyalty. And yes, this means the tranzis are trying to create a civilization in which I, as a minority, would feel less welcome.)

If I lived in a country based on ethnicity, Japan for example, things would be different. I’d be a tolerated (or I wouldn’t be living there) outsider, grateful to the people and loyal to the State; I might even adopt whatever of Japanese culture is compatible with Judaism—but I wouldn’t be Japanese, nor would anyone expect me to be.

@DonReynolds, I have no “loyalty to the State of Israel”; I’m not a citizen there; I’ve never lived there. I have a fair amount of concern for it (considering half my people and a large part of my family live there) and I’m glad to see America do whatever is compatible with our interests to protect Israel—but I’m an American, and I’d thank you to remember that.

Anonymous Bernard Brandt January 07, 2014 7:29 PM  

Krul,

Thank you for your kind suggestion. It seems to work just fine.

VD,

1. What I don't understand is why they keep utilizing the same strategy of attempting to buy the friendship of the king and amass central power over large majorities. THAT DOESN'T FREAKING WORK!

Agreed. But if one has a synoptic view of both Scripture and history, that is just what they have done for the last three or so thousand years. As to why, I am tempted to suggest Einstein's definition of insanity as the cause.

2. How do modern Jews not realize that is exactly what they're doing by attempting to run Hollywood and Wall Street to their benefit? . . . Forget about right and wrong, how is that smart?

Again, agreed. Jeffrey Cochran and other back-patters have attempted to credit the 1+ sigma advantage in g among many Jews to a process of genetic breeding over the last three millenia. I tend rather to think that it is the result of their practice of early childhood education, including literacy by the age of 3 or 4. I will note that in the last three generations, many Asians (e.g., Japanese, Koreans, Han, etc.) have adopted similar educational practices on a widespread basis, and have achieved similar results. I do not think that those results are coincidences.

But as you have noted, the problem is that it seems that too many Jews have used their advantages to play zero-sum games with business, finance, and entertainment. Over time, this has lost them many gentile friends. This also does not seem to be only a recent phenomenon. Again, this may be the result of insanity, as mentioned above.

3. I get the "don't put all your eggs in one basket". That's smart. But then, how about "stop trying to change every refuge to your liking"? I mean, is "lay low and don't cause trouble" really that hard to understand? . . . But regardless, why give them justification?

Agreed as to your first point here. But my point in raising the original issue (that Jews have historically had to beat a strategic retreat from everywhere from Pharaonic Egypt, to Imperial Rome, to Spain of 1492, right up to Nazi Germany) should be considered as mitigation for their present actions, and neither as justification nor excuse.

For my sins, as an ex-Mensa member, I'm told that I stand about four sigmas to the right of the bell curve. Thus, I'm not threatened by the mental prowess of the Chosen Race. I find much in their traditions of scholarship, invention, and theory to be admirable. I like them, as a people, and in many cases personally. If I did not believe in Christ, I might be tempted to convert to Judaism.

And yet, I wonder how such otherwise smart people could continue to do such stupid and self serving things. I content myself with the thought that if I am anti-semitic to think such, I share that status with the Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, who has the same dim views toward some among his People.

Finally, as to your comment about anti-semitism in the U.S., in Douglas Adams' phrase, 'this is true, but unhelpful.' By that I mean, I was making my original comment not about U.S. antisemitism in general, nor antisemitism in the comments here, but about some really dumb and uncharitable things said by some commenters here towards Jews.

Unlike the louts of the SFWA, I don't hold you responsible for any of the comments made by others here. Nor do I wish to have people censor themselves in accord with my beliefs. But I hope you will permit me to call others on their BS, when it issues forth so freely from their mouths or their keyboards. Speaking of which--

Josh,

Fact two: every Jew who rejected Jesus from His time to the present is in hell.

Got any Scriptural warrant for that one? Or did you just pull that out of your ass? If the latter, then I suggest you return it to its point of origin.

Anonymous lozozlo January 07, 2014 7:36 PM  

@Civil servant

What about them?

Blogger Cinco January 07, 2014 7:36 PM  

No one comes to the Father except through me
-Jesus Christ

Anonymous civilServant January 07, 2014 7:42 PM  

What about them?

What is your question?

Anonymous Different T January 07, 2014 7:48 PM  

"Redemption" it is. It would've been humorous to hear you deliver your heart-felt shaming to the English pilgrims, etc. in the past.

Anonymous AlteredFate January 07, 2014 7:51 PM  

Most of them I observe put their trust in exactly that. Often to the exclusion of their God

Satan? The Dollar? We're talking about the most idolatrous nation in history, you're going to have to be more specific.

You can reason all you want, but if you step on the rattlesnake, he's going to bite your ass without thinking twice about it.

So, here's a thought: don't tread on him.


I love this blog.

Blogger Doom January 07, 2014 7:58 PM  

Apollo,

Taking on Israel is taking on God?

Are you nucking futs? Israel didn't exist for 2000 years. And, as some have pointed out, still doesn't. A secular state created in roughly the same area as the promised lands, for people who were born to Jewish mothers, is not Israel as a land of God. And, as I recall, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, and many others have easily taken on Israel in their homelands. Often having been supported by the very people they slaughtered. Test me but don't test God. You will lose, again.

I am probably one of the few non-Jew Zionists in this room. But that doesn't mean I support the liberal idiocy that infects Judaism. I still don't know if that so-called liberalism is escapism, a front, or a surrender. In any case, for those who believe they need to be murdered to a child for their ills, fine, just not when I'm included in the line-up or when it is my country at stake. Go get yourself murdered elsewhere. Here I just expect you to live with the guilt of your sins and figure things out with God. Well, and leave me the fuck alone.

By the way, where is the temple if Israel is Israel? Put up or shut up. Don't even look at me funny when I look at you funny. Figure out why I am looking and laughing. You won't win.

Anonymous lozozlo January 07, 2014 8:00 PM  

@civil servant

I meant how those quoted Bible verses apply to this post...sorry for not clarifying.

Anonymous Phalluster January 07, 2014 8:07 PM  

Got any Scriptural warrant for that one?

Libri faciunt liberos.

Anonymous VD January 07, 2014 8:31 PM  

I hope you will permit me to call others on their BS, when it issues forth so freely from their mouths or their keyboards.

It wouldn't occur to me to deny you that right.

Anonymous 11B January 07, 2014 8:43 PM  

If I lived in a country based on ethnicity, Japan for example, things would be different. I’d be a tolerated (or I wouldn’t be living there) outsider, grateful to the people and loyal to the State; I might even adopt whatever of Japanese culture is compatible with Judaism—but I wouldn’t be Japanese, nor would anyone expect me to be.

JC, America was founded by race, if not ethnicity. The First Naturalization Act of 1790, crafted by the First Congress and signed into law by the great father of our nation, restricted naturalization to "free white persons of good moral character".

Immigration acts that followed pretty much limited the right to immigrate to Europeans. It was not until 1965, when Emanuel Celler's act( not Teddy Kennedy's) was put into effect. This is the genesis of the America you described.

Though pre-1965 America was not one ethnicity, it was an 88% Euro nation that aped WASP values. Outside of our legacy slave population, it was fairly homogenous, and the people had taken on a shared common history and culture despite the fact they were comprised of various European ethnicities. What we have now would be looked upon as an abomination by the Founders.

Anonymous zen0 January 07, 2014 8:49 PM  

@ VD It wouldn't occur to me to deny you that right.

I think you mean "privilege" instead of " right" in this instance.

Anonymous Harsh January 07, 2014 8:58 PM  

Fact one: Jesus was Jewish.

He was born Jewish but he had a Christian soul.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 9:17 PM  

VD said: Hitler was antisemitic.

Hitler wasn't antisemitic. He was pro-German.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 9:32 PM  

VD said I am a Christian Zionist.

Now that's a pigeonhole if ever I've seen one.

Anonymous Josh January 07, 2014 9:37 PM  

Got any Scriptural warrant for that one? Or did you just pull that out of your ass? If the latter, then I suggest you return it to its point of origin.

As Cinco already said,
No one comes to the Father except through me

Also, Rom 10:9
if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Matt 10:32
So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,

Anonymous zen0 January 07, 2014 9:49 PM  

Look people, just because the Jews own all the media and control the finances and the government and work for social legislation antithetical to the constitution and soul of the country, does not mean you can round them up and put them to death in camps.

Rather, you can round them up and export them to Israel were they are required to fufill their destiny, according to the dictates of their Creator.

Hitler did not have that option. Now it is available, so one must avail oneself of the opportunity.

One caveat, especially for America....once that is done, quit meddling in their affairs.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 9:58 PM  

11B......"JC, America was founded by race, if not ethnicity. The First Naturalization Act of 1790, crafted by the First Congress and signed into law by the great father of our nation, restricted naturalization to "free white persons of good moral character"."

I appreciate all that you write, but I would make the distinction between immigration and citizenship (naturalization). There were no restrictions on immigration until the Page Act of 1875, which excluded "undesirables" from coming to this country, specifically any Asian brought to the US as a forced laborer, Asian women who would engage in prostitution, and ANY person considered a convict in their own country. This was followed by the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which was a total ban intended for ten years (but continued as the Geary Act of 1892). The Immigration Act of 1903 (also called the Anarchist Exclusion Act) added a ban on four more categories of persons.....anarchists, epileptics, beggars, and importers of prostitutes. The Immigration Act of 1907 expanded the exclusion to include certain disabled and diseased persons. The Immigration Act of 1918 enabled the government to detain and deport foreign-born anarchists, anti-war protesters, and members of radical labor unions. The Emergency Immigration Act of 1921 provided for numerical limits on immigration from European countries, which was 3% (annually) of the number of persons already in the US from each European country as of the 1910 Census. The Immigration Act of 1924 expanded the numerical caps to non-European countries and cut the percentage to 2% (annually) as of the Census of 1890. This specifically tried to restrict Jewish and Middle Eastern immigration in order to "preserve the ideal of American homogeneity". TOTAL annual immigration was capped at 150,000 per year. (The Chinese Excusion Act was repealed in 1943.) The Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952 liberalized immigration from Asia but made it easier to deport aliens suspected of communist sympathies.

11B......"Immigration acts that followed pretty much limited the right to immigrate to Europeans. It was not until 1965, when Emanuel Celler's act( not Teddy Kennedy's) was put into effect. This is the genesis of the America you described."

The Hart-Cellar Act of 1965 discontinued the quotas based on national origin, but (ironically) was the first law restricting Mexican immigration. (We see how that worked?) This was
closely followed by the Cuban Refugee Adjustment Act of 1966, which extended very favorable status to any Cuban who could make it to the US. Since then, there have been immigration control acts in 1986, 1990, 1996, and 2005.

Anonymous bob k. mando January 07, 2014 10:01 PM  

Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 9:17 PM
Hitler wasn't antisemitic. He was pro-German.



if killing 6 million for the crime of being ethnically Jewish doesn't qualify you as "anti-semitic", nothing does.

that Hitler was also anti-bottom homo, anti-gypsy, anti-Russian and anti-retard German is beside the point.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 10:02 PM  

One caveat, especially for America....once that is done, quit meddling in their affairs.

Why can't we just bomb them?

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 10:04 PM  

Bob K Mando, I don't share your religion of holocaustianity. It has no power over me.

that Hitler was also anti-bottom homo, anti-gypsy, anti-Russian and anti-retard German is beside the point.

No it isn't. Like I said, Hitler was pro-German.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 10:10 PM  

Pat Hannagan....."VD said: Hitler was antisemitic.
Hitler wasn't antisemitic. He was pro-German."

I tend to agree with you Paddy, but it seems antisemitic has been redefined more recently as:

Axe Head......"Joseph Sobran: An anti-Semite used to mean a man who hated Jews. Now it means a man who is hated by Jews."

(How very true.) Under the current definition, Adolph would qualify as antisemitic.

(Just an aside: Since both the Arab and the Jew are semites and they tend to hate each other, I suppose that would mean they are both antisemitic.)

Anonymous paradox January 07, 2014 10:17 PM  

Josh

Fact one: Jesus was Jewish.


Depends on how you define 'Jewish'. Was Jesus a Jew because He was from Judea? Like Texans are from Texas. Luke was not a Jew... he was a Greek... who practiced the Hebrew religion and later Christianity.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 10:23 PM  

paradox......"Depends on how you define 'Jewish'. Was Jesus a Jew because He was from Judea? Like Texans are from Texas. Luke was not a Jew... he was a Greek... who practiced the Hebrew religion and later Christianity."

To the Jews, Luke would be considered a Gentile (Greek) and a barbarian.
Jesus was a Jew because he was born to the House of David, in the City of David, raised by Jewish parents in the Jewish tradition, and hung out at the Temple.

Anonymous 11B January 07, 2014 10:23 PM  

@DonReynolds - That's good to know. It looks like you put some time into the history of US immigration law. My guess is that certain measures did not have to be taken back then because of the huge cost and effort required for migration. But with cheap air travel, instant global telecommunications, wire transfers, obscenely generous welfare benefits etc., it makes it suicidal to not hard code some sort of policy that preserves the demographics of European-peopled nations.

Even nations in Europe, theoretically setup for an ethnic group, don't seem to have any legal provisions to prevent their native ethnics from being displaced. If any European reader can enlighten me on this, I assume that nations like the UK, Greece, etc. have nothing to preserve the majority status of their natives. So if in 50 to 100 years, third worlders become a majority in those nations, so be it.

European nations need something similar to Israel where she expresses her purpose of being a Jewish majority state. Without that type of expressed political will, the future doesn't look good.

Anonymous zen0 January 07, 2014 10:24 PM  

@ Don Reynolds

Since both the Arab and the Jew are semites

Just a point of legal information. Arabs are considered by Jewish law to be Hamites, because Hagar was Egyptian.

Arabs (Ishmaelites) follow patrilineal rules so they consider themselves Semites, after the father, Abraham.

See? Only God can sort this out. They can't even agree on their prime identity.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 10:24 PM  

I tend to agree with you Paddy, but it seems antisemitic has been redefined more recently as:

Axe Head......"Joseph Sobran: An anti-Semite used to mean a man who hated Jews. Now it means a man who is hated by Jews."


Yes, I've heard that Sobran one some time ago and it's a good one. VD wasn't deploying the term in the Sobran sense though. Given the context, VD was saying that one must first check with Big Jew before asserting any entitlement to defend your own family.

But, I never knew he was a Christian Zionist so his position on the matter does have its theological logic.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 10:27 PM  

Depends on how you define 'Jewish'.

Good point, paradox.

The Jews today are of the Talmud, which draws its lineage from the Pharisees. As any Christian knows, Christ opposed the Pharisaical teaching on "the law" stating that they were inserting their own man made laws and perverting God's laws. So, in that sense, Jesus definitely wasn't a Jew.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 10:31 PM  

It's instructive to note, though, that if one favours one's own family to that of the Jew's, then one is an antisemite. Thus is the logic of the Christian Zionist.

Anonymous LES January 07, 2014 10:34 PM  

Vox, by self-identifying as a Christian Zionist are you implying that you support every ethnic minority being deserving of autonomy and self-government? And if war is necessary to achieve those ends, then so be it? From your books I sense that you have more of an affinity for violence than I have.

Anonymous DonReynolds January 07, 2014 10:37 PM  

Pat Hannagan....."As any Christian knows, Christ opposed the Pharisaical teaching on "the law" stating that they were inserting their own man made laws and perverting God's laws. So, in that sense, Jesus definitely wasn't a Jew."

You are a fine man, Paddy. Remember too what Christ said when his disciples asked him how to pray. His first response was....... do not pray as the Jews do....standing, with their shoes on, and their hat on, aloud on the street for other men to hear. Instead, get on your knees, in your closet, alone.

To me, it was one of the most moving parts of the New Testament.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter January 07, 2014 10:37 PM  

"Jeffrey Cochran and other back-patters have attempted to credit the 1+ sigma advantage in g among many Jews to a process of genetic breeding over the last three millenia."

I think he is known as Greg, and suggests that much of that increase occurred in the last 500 or so years.

Anonymous paradox January 07, 2014 10:43 PM  

DonReynolds

Matthew 8:10
"When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith."

This was said about the Roman centurion, a (gentile, non-Judean) who Jesus is including as part of Israel. Jesus was a Hebrew-Judean, Luke was a Hebrew-Greek. The Hebrew religion was ethnicity based on belief, not nationality. Judaism is not the Hebrew religion, it's Phariseeism. The majority of Hebrew believers were in Judea.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter January 07, 2014 10:50 PM  

I think Apple is in trouble:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/01/major-investors-push-apple-execs-to-be-more-diverse-its-all-white-men/

Anonymous AlteredFate January 07, 2014 11:05 PM  

If any European reader can enlighten me on this, I assume that nations like the UK, Greece, etc. have nothing to preserve the majority status of their natives

dat be raciss

Anonymous Orville January 07, 2014 11:08 PM  

I wouldn't be so harsh on the Jewish fellow who would bug out if the American culture goes south. A number of regulars here have for some years spoken in favor of expatriation.

Twice in The Revelations where God is speaking to the seven churches he mentions the synagogue of Satan. I don't believe he was saying all Jews work for Satan, but I do believe there are a number of implications spread throughout the scriptures that the anti-christ would have some Jewish blood to be able to pass himself off as the Messiah to the Jews, and he will certainly be no friend of the Jew. As mentioned by others, the Jews have a very poor track record in picking their champions.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 07, 2014 11:38 PM  

Quote

Of course the truth is much more complex, when you have two Jews together you will get three opinions.

Sam, with all due respect, you keep saying that, but the average Gentile doesn't find that charming or clever. It sounds more like one of those two Jews is speaking with a forked tongue. And one would presume he's the one in the Senate or the Federal Reserve.

Unquote

VD I get that, but the phrase really does describe a certain aspect of Jewish internal discussions. It is not dishonesty, it is more a set of deeply cultural beliefs overlaid on a tradition of what Jews see and free thinking. Of course that means you have deeply held belief that are very contradictory. You really can have two Jews arguing about something come up with three different opinions.

That is whey I think the idea that the Jews have a sort of master plan to destroy the west is kind of silly. There simply is not that kind of united thought in the overall Jewish community. The divide and animosities between the secular (cultural Jews) reformed, conservative, orthodox and ultra-orthodox are simply too high.


Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 07, 2014 11:54 PM  

Of course the truth is much more complex, when you have two Jews together you will get three opinions.


Correction:

Of course the truth is much more complex: when you have two Jews together you will get three opinions on what's best for the Jews.

Anonymous Heaviside January 08, 2014 1:17 AM  

Fine, go to China, they can have you! Don't let our bullets hit you in the ass on the way out!

You filthy kikes killed my great grand father. "Never again"? How about Hiroshima? Hows that for a "holocaust"?

I swear if you ever come to Japan we will send every last one of you back to your dead god.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C-1hzjmUVk

Anonymous 11B January 08, 2014 2:28 AM  

That is whey I think the idea that the Jews have a sort of master plan to destroy the west is kind of silly. There simply is not that kind of united thought in the overall Jewish community. The divide and animosities between the secular (cultural Jews) reformed, conservative, orthodox and ultra-orthodox are simply too high.

It's not that we think there is a master plan, or that there are not differences among Jews. What we see is this rigid adherence to maintaining Jewish identity in the diaspora which shapes Jewish attitudes on a myriad of political issues that clash with our views.

For example Jews disproportionately support open borders in the USA. I've heard many explanations, such as Jews feel insecure in a nation that is overwhelmingly one group. So they support diluting the nation with diverse groups so that no one group is dominant. As Ben Wattenberg said once, "a more diverse America is better for the Jews." But for us diversity is not a strength. Like others around the world, including Israel, we believe diversity is a potential problem that needs to be kept in check, or else...

Another example would be the support for hate crime laws and other restrictions upon free speech or free association. If Jews feel threatened as Jews, then this probably leads them to support such measures to ensure nothing bad happens to them, and to build alliances with other minorities. But to us these types of restrictions go against this nation's founding principles.

And it seems as though the media and other groups are always whipping up stories about Nazis, racists and others to keep Jews frightened, and to keep them thinking like this. Just watch the Southern Poverty Law Center ($PLC) at work. That's all they do. They scare Jews about some loner racist who is apparently a threat.

Keep in mind we are not asking Jews to do anything that we have not already done ourselves, which is to assimilate. Most of us are not descendants of the Founders. Yet we've come to believe that they are part of our past, and have assimilated. It is probably easier for us as European mutts to do this than Africans or Asians since we do sort of look like our Founders.

But the point is the assimilation process has almost completely removed any traces of our ancestral past. We don't speak our ancestral languages, and we don't know much about our ancestral homelands. So the majority culture does not feel threatening to us, because in our minds we have become part of the majority culture.

I don't know how to resolve this issue of assimilation. I understand that Jews are proud to have kept their identity in the diaspora for the past two thousand years. And because of this you have not gone the way of the Goths, Vandals and others who have disappeared.

But so long as you stand out as a separate group who fear the majority, you'll probably continue to support the policies that wreck this nation, and make it where you will eventually wish to leave.


Anonymous VD January 08, 2014 3:24 AM  

Given the context, VD was saying that one must first check with Big Jew before asserting any entitlement to defend your own family.

You're absolutely wrong, Pat. Don't attempt to speak for me or put words in my mouth again. Review the Rules of the Blog. You have been warned.

I don't recognize any limits on self-defense on one's self, home, or family, other than it actually be self-defense.

You really can have two Jews arguing about something come up with three different opinions.

My point, Sam, is that no one gives a damn. And the idea that Jews are proud of being quarrelsome isn't exactly edifying.

OpenID mattse001 January 08, 2014 3:32 AM  

So American Jews (who also feel an affinity for Israel) are discussing contingency plans predicated on America's decline. So what?

So those particular Jews are obviously not as loyal to America or the American people as they pretended to be. And Americans need feel no loyalty or responsibility for them. Perhaps you don't think that's a big deal. Many people will disagree.

And what would "loyalty to America" entail? Denying the decline that is due to Obama and the leftists? "Rah, rah, rah-ing" our team while the decay and corruption become more apparent each day? Or maybe you're upset that these people think they have an escape hatch? Should they stay and fight? There's good reason to wonder if America isn't broken beyond repair. Mainly because so many Americans are ignorant dolts that sell their freedom so cheaply (see: 2012 election results).
Noting that fact is called "being minimally observant."

As to "these policies", are you referring to liberalism or zionism?

Liberalism, Keynesianism, etc. I have no problem with Zionism. I am a Christian Zionist.
The real problem with American Jews is that 75% (or more) of them are liberals. In fact, if forced to choose, these people would choose liberalism in a heartbeat. They choose liberalism even when it directly opposes what should be their self-interest (see: the left's embrace of Islam).
Re: Richard Perle, et. al.:the neo-cons are not conservative, unless by "neo-" you mean "anti-". Support of limited government is the sine-qua-non of conservatism, but is rejected as unrealistic by neocons. Just like the fiction of "right vs. left" in the Nazi vs. Soviet narrative, the neocons have far more in common with the left than conservatives. They are statists.

Who knows? Maybe Jews' love of leftism throughout history is the real reason for their "othering."

Anonymous fritz January 08, 2014 4:19 AM  

Well, since we are discussing AIPAC et al, it would be instrumental to learn and understand just what they have actually accomplished to date:

For one, Free Trade

Among, many, many other thangs.

Y'all stay warm now ...

Anonymous Samuel Scott January 08, 2014 5:55 AM  

Coming to the party late. My responses to various comments.

"Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world—only to serve the People of Israel. Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat." Rabbi Yosef, Israel's Shas Party

Rabbi Yosef was a racist, though his background helps to explain why. He was of Mizrahi origin at a time when Ashkenazi Jews viewed Mizrahi Jews as inferior trash. So, Yosef's entire life was pretty much spent on building and supporting the Mizrahi community in Israel (the Shas political party was for explicitly that purpose).

He felt superior to Ashkenazi Jews. He felt superior to Arabs and other non-Jews (even going so far as to issue an edict -- to which no one really paid attention -- in his later years that it was forbidden to sell or rent to them).

In short, one cannot take one quote from one controversial rabbi to characterize all Jews. Even if that rabbi was once a Chief Rabbi of Israel -- the chief rabbis here are chosen in shadowy secret and are largely ceremonial and irrelevant to most Jews, even religious ones.

And Chinese humor being what it is, I wouldn't put past them to welcome Jewish refugees from a collapsing West, then settle them right in the middle of the Uighurs just to see what happens.

China welcomed Jewish refugees before and during World War II. There's a small but thriving community there. But who knows what the future may hold.

Its not like Israel has any border friends and its such a tiny country.

Israel and Jordan are friendly.

he believes in reincarnation of Jewish souls? i thought that reincarnation / resurrection was abhorrent to Jewish thought?

Not to repeat the point elsewhere in the comments, but -- two Jews, three opinions. Judaism as a whole is not "orthodoxic" (commonality of belief) but "orthopraxic" (commonality of practice). There is common agreement not to eat levened bread on Passover, but there is no agreement on what happens in the afterlife. There's very little absolute doctrine as a whole.

Fact two: every Jew who rejected Jesus from His time to the present is in hell.

Not a fact. That's your religious opinion. There is no way to prove or falsify that statement.

The idea of the Jews being assimilated into India or the Indian diaspora is stupid as well as hillarious.

There were Jews in India for thousands of years. Most of them have now emigrated to Israel.

Hitler wasn't antisemitic. He was pro-German.

Moron.

and I just deleted your blog from my favourites you kike ball licker.

I doubt anyone here will miss you.

Anonymous White Santa January 08, 2014 6:02 AM  

Slightly off-topic but potentially interesting:

Jon Stewart does a short skit in which he insists that Jews are not white --

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-december-12-2013-evangeline-lilly

It ends with Jessica Williams saying "Jews are white now, so congratulations Jon" - starts around 7:10

Anonymous Samuel Scott January 08, 2014 6:16 AM  

It's the difference between race and ethnicity/nationality that no one seems to get.

Some Jews are white. Some are brown (Moroccan, Yemen), some are black (Ethiopian), and so on. Judaism is an ethnicity/people/nation and a religion, not a race.

This is why discussion of "white" are meaningless. "White," defined as "Caucasian," includes diverse peoples from the English to the Greeks to the Persians to the Arabs.

Anonymous Stilicho January 08, 2014 7:04 AM  

Well, since we are discussing AIPAC et al, it would be instrumental to learn and understand just what they have actually accomplished to date:

Reg: All right, but apart from the communism, medicine, education, kosher hot dogs, excessive laws, mass immigration, the financial system, Hollywood and neocon foreign policy, what have the Jews ever done for us?

Attendee: Created the ACLU?

Reg: The ACLU? - shut up!

Reg: There is not one of us who would not gladly suffer death to rid this country of the Jews once and for all.

Dissenter: Uh, well, one.

Reg: Oh, yeah, yeah, there's one. But otherwise, we're solid.

Anonymous fnn January 08, 2014 7:28 AM  

This is why discussion of "white" are meaningless.

Traditionally "white" means European. Though the eastern boundaries of Europe are somewhat fuzzy.

Color is not synonymous with race/population/subspecies

Jews Are a 'Race,' Genes Reveal
Author Uncovers DNA Links Between Members of Tribe



Read more: http://forward.com/articles/155742/jews-are-a-race-genes-reveal/?p=all#ixzz2poEnH9Q1

Anonymous JJ January 08, 2014 10:23 AM  

Professors like Noel Ignatiev who demands the white race abolished yet receives nowhere near the backlash as say, Norman Finkelstein. Leaders of organizations like AIPAC, who openly revel in the prospect of America being majority minority in the coming decades and claiming its something to be "welcomed." Or Tim Wise, a Jew who made a career just on telling white people how evil they are. Couple this with their over-representation in politics, bureaucrats, courts, academia, media, banks, and every other institution of power and influence in society outside the church, all working in concert against white Americans, is it really any surprise that antisemitism has fostered and grown in such a sociocultural environment?

But really, the straw that breaks the camel's back, is just the blatant hypocrisy among Jews, who demand the US and other Western nations take in massive immigrants, but support the exact opposite of Israel. Its okay for them to want Israel to stay a Jewish nation, but think its evil for Americans and other Western civilizations to want to remain white nations. And always the "racist" card in US politics. Its racist for the US to limit and carefully select immigrants, but not for Israel. Its racist for the US to build a fence, but not for Israel. Its racist for the US to deport illegals, but not for Israel. Its racist for the US to limit welfare to citizens, but not for Israel. Its racist for the US to want honest elections, but not for Israel. Its racist for the US to try to show legal preference to native labor, but not for Israel. And on and on we go.

I would go as far as to say it becomes difficult to next to impossible for non-Christian/Jewish Americans to avoid becoming antisemetics, considering their isnt a single racial demographic that hasnt been negatively affected by them in the US, not even the Asians.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 08, 2014 10:52 AM  

JJ: "Leaders of organizations like AIPAC, who openly revel in the prospect of America being majority minority in the coming decades and claiming its something to be "welcomed.""

When people say America is projected to be "multicultural-majority" by 2042, all non-whites are being counted as multicultural. No whites count as multicultural. "More multicultural" is code for "less whites". "Totally multicultural" means "no whites".

Multiculturalism is a genocidal scam.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 08, 2014 11:45 AM  

VD: "I simply can't fathom the China strategy. I mean, the Han don't hesitate to butcher tens of millions of their own people and they've been doing that sort of thing for over a thousand years."

That willingness to butcher themselves / each other by the millions and the tens of millions is a sign that they will not stand by each other enough to prevent the rise of new leadership.

Can they be turned against each other? Will Han slay Han? YES!

All-righty then! Off to the races!

Anonymous Bernard Brandt January 08, 2014 12:48 PM  

VD,

Thanks. This is, after all, your party.

Concerned Rabbit Hunter,

Thanks for catching my mistake about the first name of Gregory Cochran. I generally fact, spell and name check my entries before posting, but what with this damned flu, I feel as though I have 'one cerebral hemisphere tied behind my back'.

Josh,

Even with my present infirmity, I am more than capable of addressing you.

So, your proof texts for your odd belief that all deceased Jews (after the death of our Lord Christ) are now in Hell are John 14:6, Romans 10:9, and Matt 10:31.

I will start by pointing out that logically, it does not follow that because acceptance of the proposition that 'Jesus Christ is Lord' is necessary for salvation, that rejection of that proposition by itself leads to damnation. For but one example of this proof, Saul of Tarsus both rejected the proposition and actively persecuted Christians. I know of no Christian communion that now says (God forbid) "the Apostle Paul is frying in Hell".

Second, your "fact" does not take into account the loving kindnesses that the Lord has shown His people in that two millennium spousal dispute document known as the Bible. Nor does it deal with the mercies that our Lord Christ showed to those who persecuted and killed Him, not the least of which was His prayer, gasped out while on the Cross: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

If our Lord could be merciful to those who had heard His message, but rejected it and killed Him, do you think that He would be less merciful to all those who followed, whose only knowledge of Him and His message was through the preaching of His (generally clueless) followers?

Third, I believe that your 'fact' includes within it the sort of judgment and condemnation that we as Christians are forbidden by our Lord from making. It is one thing to witness to the truth by saying: "The Bible teaches that X, Y or Z are sins, and that the consequences of those sins may be death, in this life and the next. It is quite another to say, "All Jews who have rejected Christ in their lives and who have died are now in Hell."

Fourth, I will point out that like most of the rest of us, you have no basis for asserting as true your damnable 'fact'. Without wishing to get all 'Book of Job', on your sorry backside, are you privy to the inmost thoughts of God, or were you present at the Judgment Seat of ANY of those you blithely assume are now toasting their heels in Hell? I thought not.

Fifth, and contrary to your bold assertion that your alleged 'fact' coexists "quite nicely for the non raving lunatic set," a review of Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Reformed, Baptist, and other major Christian communions shows that NONE of them hold anything near that as an article of belief.

It seems that the only so-called Christians who come anywhere close to such a belief as yours also eat clay, handle rattlesnakes, and marry their cousins.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 08, 2014 12:52 PM  

VD: "1. Agreed. What I don't understand is why they keep utilizing the same strategy of attempting to buy the friendship of the king and amass central power over large majorities. THAT DOESN'T FREAKING WORK! It didn't work then."

What I can't understand is why you and so many people who say the same thing don't accept that it does work, it has always worked and it will always work, and the proof is that the Jews are still here.

Why do people persist in assuming the Jews are stupid and need advice on how to survive collectively and for the long run?

You at least have the excuse of being unusually intelligent, but still much less so than many of the Jews planning for Jewish survival in perpetuity.

They can do that realistically, on the basis of long history and with massive social cohesion and vast genetic, cultural, intellectual and material resources supporting the successful collective strategy; whereas you can't do anything like that for your posterity.

You who are a dust mote in the wind, you who can't save your posterity from being disposed of like dodos once you are gone and can't use your unusual personal gifts to protect them any more - how can you talk down to a collectively immortal race demonstrating a strong super-human group intelligence?

Jews have collectively co-opted practically the whole of the elite of the white race, that race which used to comprise about a third of mankind and was responsible for nearly all of its creativity and beauty, and set it to auto-exterminate, and now keep it on course with no more difficulty than a scientist getting a lab animal that has reached the end of its usefulness to run one last maze to a painful end. This collectively auto-genocidal elite includes many people much smarter than you, smart as you are. Does this not impress you at all, or give you the idea that you ought to be talking up rather than down when it comes to Jews and survival strategy?

If you weren't as smart as you are, I'd put your remarks down to Dunning-Kruger effect when it comes to large-scale, long term group survival thinking; as it is I'm just baffled.

VD: "It's not working now, obviously, or there wouldn't be plans in the making to curry favor in Asia."

That's no more a sign of failure than the Mongol invasion of China was a sign of Mongol failure.

OpenID luagha January 08, 2014 1:06 PM  

So, speaking as a Jew (who is also a married gay male with a closet full of assault rifles, and a roleplaying gamer) it is this way:

If you read the Old Testament stories, you will notice a pattern.
1. Most of the Jews screw up and quit following their commandments.
2. Bad things happen.
3. A few of the Jews are really keeping the faith, so God bails them out miraculously.
4. The Jews celebrate and promise to never forget their laws again.

A few years later:

1. Most of the Jews have forgotten their miraculous deliverance. They screw up and quit following their commandments
2... Lather, rinse, repeat.

This is why the old joke about how all Jewish holidays are the same:
1.They tried to kill us.
2. We're still here.
3. Let's eat!

So the real question that some people have alluded to is, "If Jews are so smart, why are they so stupid THIS WAY?"

And the sainted Gary Gygax would tell you that this is the difference between Intelligence and Wisdom. Even though they were given A Book to hold them to the straight and narrow, they are still affected by intellectual fads and foolishness like socialism and social this and social that and 'improving the world'.

And you will find that the less Jewish they are, the more they are affected by these fads. The easier they are tempted. Like that list of Jews in the Treasury and at banks and Goldman-Sachs - Yom Kippur jews the lot of them.

OpenID luagha January 08, 2014 1:13 PM  

As an aside - the term 'Anti-semitism' was coined by Wilhelm Marr in 1879. A political rabble-rouser, he found that when he called his movement 'Judenhass' (just 'Jew-hatred' in German) he couldn't attract popular young ladies to his cause. Popular young ladies attract powerful young men and are critical to any social movement.

Therefore he coined the term 'Anti-Semitism' to sound more scientific and less harsh. Yet, it was clearly to just mean 'Jew-hatred' and any confusing of that goal with other semitic races is just an intentional confusion.

Now, of course, it is often used as an stupid shield and I don't care for that either. There's plenty of reason to hate individual things Israel does and applaud valuable things they do; and individual Jews too.

Anonymous Sam the Man January 08, 2014 1:20 PM  

luagha

welll said

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 08, 2014 1:21 PM  

PS: Or if you think Jews are not at the top of the food chain, evidently they are valuable to whoever is at the top of the food chain in ways that other races are not.

What it always comes down to is: you are speaking up not down to Jews when it comes to long term collective survival.

Anonymous Titus Didius Tacitus January 08, 2014 1:30 PM  

luagha: "This is why the old joke about how all Jewish holidays are the same:
1.They tried to kill us.
2. We're still here.
3. Let's eat!"

These are the jokes of a race that is still here after thousands of years as one identifiable group with a consistent, continuing culture, to tell all the stories itself.

If that's not proof of vast superiority, I find it hard to imagine what would be.

Anonymous Brandon January 08, 2014 4:00 PM  

Look up a little history and see how many countries have kicked out the jew over the years. Today's jew is descended from that pharisaical bunch that Jesus condemned. And no....Jesus was not a jew. They are a parasitic/cancer, nation destroying entity, the direct instrument of satan in the world. Oh.....and they aren't semitic and their "anti semitic trick canard was invented to shut down debate just as the "racist!" horshit.

Blogger larz January 08, 2014 4:25 PM  

Jews are already heavily entrenched in China, and setup Chinese Communism:

http://jewishfaces.com/china.html

Blogger neal January 08, 2014 5:08 PM  

Look guys, you had one job. Save the world, and stay out of it.

At least the Merovingians and the rest of that broadcast, the ones left, did not let that go too much to the head, breeding, and all.

Who knew that old temptations would corrupt the old code without tiring? Probably going to take some time to repair this stuff, money, guns, lawyers. Blood will be spilled.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 08, 2014 5:50 PM  

Vox said:

"You're absolutely wrong, Pat. Don't attempt to speak for me or put words in my mouth again. Review the Rules of the Blog. You have been warned."

I wasn't attempting to speak for you or put words in your mouth. I was having a brief discussion with another commenter, Don Reynolds, with regard your answer to another commenter as follows:

Quote:I am less than impressed by the alleged "Christians" who have been expressing anti-Semitic sentiments here

VD Reply: There are 300 million guns in the USA. There are what, 2 million Jews? If America was genuinely antisemitic, American Jewry would be gone in an afternoon. Hitler was antisemitic. Dislike for Jewish nepotism and political overrepresentation isn't antisemitic.

I wish the Jewish people well. I genuinely do. But that doesn't mean I want them running my country's financial system into the ground because they think it is "good for the Jews".


Don Reynolds was of the opinion that your regarding Hitler an anti-Semite was merely as Joseph Sobran would put it, "An anti-Semite used to mean a man who hated Jews. Now it means a man who is hated by Jews." This is clearly not the intent of your answer.

You said:

1) "There are 300 million guns in the USA. There are what, 2 million Jews? If America was genuinely antisemitic, American Jewry would be gone in an afternoon."

My conclusion is that you are saying that wiping out American Jewry "in an afternoon" would be a simple matter for Americans given their overwhelming firepower, were they of the mindset that they simply hated Jews, for no reason whatsoever.


2) "Hitler was antisemitic." Here you contrast the above with Hitler, asserting that he had an irrational and unjustified hatred of Jews which caused him to use the overwhelming firepower of the then Germans to to wipe out Jews.


3) "Dislike for Jewish nepotism and political overrepresentation isn't antisemitic." You again contrast Hitler's motivations with that of your present situation. It wasn't dislike of "Jewish nepotism and political overrepresentation" that caused Hitler to act. You, however, have justifiable reasons, rational and reasonable reasons, to dislike what the Jews are doing to your country.

So, it is quite clear to my mind that you weren't using anti-Semitic in the Sobran sense, you were contrasting Hitler's genuine, to your mind, anti-Semitism with that of your own reasonable objections.

In fact, you conclude: "I wish the Jewish people well. I genuinely do." I take you at your word. Regardless of what the Jews have done to your country-your extended family-you still wish the Jews well, with all sincerity. You point out that the Jews have run the "country's financial system into the ground" out of their own purely ethnocentric interests, and they have a "political overrepresentation" which must, given their ethnocentricity, manifest itself in ways that are "good for the Jews". Yet you still wish them the greatest of well wishes. All you seek to point out is that you, unlike Hitler, are not an antisemite and your objections are reasonable and should be in no way construed as anything like that of Hitler, who was unreasonable and had an irrational hatred of the Jews.

I believe this demonstrates that you weren't emplying the Sobran definition. You were confirming that there *are* "antisemites" and you are not one of them, nor are the majority of Americans who, despite all the harm that has been done to them, still wish the Jews the very best of wishes. Hitler, for you, is definitional of anti-Semitism.

If I have misconstrued you then please correct me.

Anonymous Pat Hannagan January 08, 2014 5:53 PM  

Now, to the point where I said "Given the context, VD was saying that one must first check with Big Jew before asserting any entitlement to defend your own family."

Given that you are vastly more intelligent than me and have a superior education in all facets to myself, a point you go to great lengths to make in your blog rules, I must conclude that you know very well, and in great detail, the history of Europe throughout the 20th century. It is necessary that I conclude that. I *have* concluded that. I accept it, holus-bolus. Without going to extremes of obsequiousness your intelligence and knowledge makes me, who is of mediocre intelligence, look like a retard. I accept this.

And it is for that reason that you must know of the dominance of Jews in the Bolshevik revolution. You must know of the disaster that these Jews wrought upon Russia and her people. You must know of the Holodomor. You must know what Hitler knew, and what Churchill knew, that Europe was faced with a genocidal regime dominated by Jews who sought to impose their brutal suppression and annihilation of the European peoples worldwide. You must also know that Germany was betrayed at Versailles and her people divided up into new nations separating them from their former nation. You must know of the Jewish dominance during the decadent Weimar Republic, a situation comparable to your own nation at this point in its history. You must know all this because if I should know it, you would know it better.

Yet, you still call Hitler an "antisemite" rather than pro-German. You drew the distinction between yourself and that of the German people's response to the Jewish lead threat. Thus I concluded "VD was saying that one must first check with Big Jew before asserting any entitlement to defend your own family." You must know that Hitler regarded his people as his family, as would all good patriots.

You yourself say "I don't recognize any limits on self-defense on one's self, home, or family, other than it actually be self-defense." So you reinforce your accusation of Hitler as an antisemite rather than pro-German. Hitler wasn't acting in self defense, even given the Jewish lead threat of annihilation he was facing. He was, quite simply, an antisemite. The only way out for Hitler then would be to go to great lengths to accommodate the Jews, over and above his own people, and accept what they had done, and were threatening to do, to his people. He must give them prior entitlements to that of his own people.


If I have misconstrued you then please correct me.

I hope that I have demonstrated that rather than putting words in your mouth, or presuming to speak for you, I was putting together the ramifications of your earlier comment. As feeble as my readily accepted inferior intelligence to yourself is, you can see I was not attributing what was not there. I was, to the contrary, already conceding that you are vastly more knowledgeable of the threat that Hitler faced than myself.

I hope this clarifies matters. I remain, as ever, willing to learn. Please, if you would, explain your comments as you would have them understood since you object to my characterisation.

Of course I acknowledge that you are not bound to entertain me in the slightest, given one of your rules states: "Since I do not have any interest whatsoever in wasting time on futile attempts to explain things to...the intellectually underpowered...I will cease to engage with a commenter after he has committed three demonstrable errors of fact or logic in that comment thread." Another rule states "If Spacebunny or I tell you not to comment here, for whatever reason, then please go share your unique gems of wisdom somewhere else." It is apparent to my underpowered intellect that you could ban me "for whatever reason" and I readily accept that as my fate, should it befall me.

Blogger Desert Cat January 08, 2014 6:36 PM  

Oh don't grovel!!

Anonymous Bernard Brandt January 08, 2014 6:42 PM  

And I thought that I was long-winded.

Anonymous A. Nonymous January 09, 2014 5:13 PM  

In short, one cannot take one quote from one controversial rabbi to characterize all Jews. Even if that rabbi was once a Chief Rabbi of Israel -- the chief rabbis here are chosen in shadowy secret and are largely ceremonial and irrelevant to most Jews, even religious ones.

Which is to say, quite literally, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

Anonymous Discard January 10, 2014 12:36 PM  

China's emigration policy is intended to create a wealthy, influential minority in the U.S. that will play the good citizen and lobby for the home country's interests. Where'd they get that idea? The Chinese are on to the Jews, and I can't see them doing anything but squeezing them for whatever they know and then putting them in the fields.

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