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Thursday, July 03, 2014

The holistic solution

Tom Kratman offers a prospective curative for America's civilizational decline:
Right now we're stuck in a self reinforcing cascade of civilizational decay. What is happening to the police and to civil-police relations is partly cause and partly symptom. It is unclear that there is anything we can do about that that we will do.

So as not to be seen as too negative, however, let me offer a somewhat holistic solution: Kill all the common law felons in custody. Round up and kill all the people ever convicted of a common law felony currently at large without clear and convincing evidence that they have amended their lives (job, wife, home, no further crimes of any kind). For us, that's probably in the range of 6 million people. And then we need to round up the progressives and kill them too. (Why do we call them "progressives," anyway? Their job isn't progess; it's decay.) And then use all the overmilitarized police and prison guards to round up and kill or deport illegals. Then put them on the border to our south, and on small patrol craft at sea. They'll be happier, and so will the rest of us.

That's all pretty harsh, right? Unjust? Horrid? Horrible? Unthinkable? Yeah, well, the collapse of civilization, which is where we're heading, is going to be a lot worse, and to much more innocent people. Think little kids turning on spits over low coals.
The most shocking thing about Tom's proposed solution is that he didn't mention crucifixion. Apparently he's going soft these days. It may be a ghastly neo-Roman solution, but unfortunately, any student of history knows the man is probably correct in both his diagnosis and his ultimate prescription. We've already seen open beheadings on the streets of London. What more needs to be witnessed before the barbarians are rooted out, root and branch? Children roasting on spits in the streets? Gang rapes in the city center shopping malls? Or is the fear of being accused of racism and insufficient political correctness genuinely worth the collapse of civilized society in the eyes of the great majority of the population?

I don't think so. I think most Americans are some combination of genuine ignorance, willful ignorance, frightened paralysis, and wishful thinking. Both the government agencies and the observant citizenry find themselves in the position of two opponents standing in a spreading pool of gasoline, both armed with flamethrowers, but neither wishing to set himself alight. No one is eager for the civilizational conflagration, except for the short-sighted and the foolhardy.

Nevertheless, I would go so far to suggest that if you are not an extremist with regards to a) Jesus Christ and b) Western civilization, you are objectively part of the problem. If you are prone to temporizing on various elements such as sex, race, culture, sexual orientation, criminality, immigration, and the mass issuance of credit, then you are contributing to the collapse by providing intellectual cover to those who are actively, if often inadvertently, working to demolish Western civilization.

Read your history. Pagan societies are not very pleasant places in which to live. Science is not a magic self-sustaining enterprise. Technology is not a given and it does not grow naturally on trees. Culture is the result of a complex interweaving of nature and nurture, and it cannot survive when both are significantly altered. We are facing a situation where the societal supports have been methodically withdrawn, one after the other, and with each failure to immediately collapse, it is widely agreed by the elite and the unwashed alike that the support removed is thereby proven to have been unnecessary. This is not valid logic. What took centuries to build is taking decades to dismantle; the fact that the structure does not instantly collapse does not indicate that it remains sound.

Because the progressives were permitted to experiment with withdrawing various civilizational supports, the West will soon find its options constrained to a few scenarios, all of them ugly, if it is to survive in a recognizable form. And if you are prone to temporizing your defense of civilization now due to your fear that someone will criticize you, why do you think you will dare to lift a finger in its defense when the price of doing so will be considerably higher?

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525 Comments:

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Anonymous ENthepeasant July 03, 2014 4:28 AM  

Can I get a link for Kratman's article?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 03, 2014 4:48 AM  

Vox, when God sees people rejecting Him, he lets the lunatics have exactly what they want--and it becomes a punishment.

Anonymous lurker July 03, 2014 4:51 AM  

"What took centuries to build is taking decades to dismantle."

The same time differential when it comes to building/demolishing a house.

Anonymous ENthePeasant July 03, 2014 4:54 AM  

I thought this decision was very timely.
Europe Takes One More Step Toward Eliminating the Burqa
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/02/Europe-Takes-One-More-Step-Toward-Eliminating-the-Burqa

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 4:58 AM  

Can I get a link for Kratman's article?

No, it was a comment he made towards the end (second page) of the Scalzi thread.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 4:59 AM  

I have, however, noticed that Tom's comments have a tendency of looking like articles...

Blogger JACIII July 03, 2014 5:02 AM  

It won't be the folks who see it coming who start, Bogey. It will be the couch zombie watching television for a hobby.

I never thought it would turn out that way, as common thought would lead one to see folk on the fringe becoming the first to get busy. If the Tea Party has shown us anything, it is the comfortable couch zombie that hasn't been paying any attention to reality who will achieve the greatest outrage when it finally dawns on him he's been getting it deep and dry from both sides.

Anonymous VD July 03, 2014 5:02 AM  

I added a link to the original comment. It started off as a riff on American policing, lest you be confused as to whether it is the correct comment.

Anonymous zen0 July 03, 2014 5:08 AM  

People with no awareness of history seem to think that all the amenities they take for granted just magically appeared and take no effort to sustain.

Maybe its the difference between property owners and renters. Property owners are keenly aware that without regular maintenance, things tend to turn to crap. Renters and other gypsies don't have a clue, and don't care.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 03, 2014 5:38 AM  

I didn't rule it out, either.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 03, 2014 5:46 AM  

Thing is, though, that except for putting to death all common law felons, I don't _want_ to do hardly any of that. Really don't. I just don't see any other way. And, ya know, WTF, _I'm_ not one of those who got us into this mess that requires what amounts to mass murder to prevent worse mass murder.

Blogger lannes July 03, 2014 5:49 AM  

very prescient

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2014 6:14 AM  

I'm sorry but this won't do any good at all unless, you throw in all Women's and Gender Studies professors. Then you'll have the cart as well as the horse.

Blogger Tom Kratman July 03, 2014 6:17 AM  

I did mention "progressives," did I not? Is there a Women's and Gender Studies prof who isn't a prog?

Anonymous Emcee emmelexos IV July 03, 2014 6:25 AM  

When the shit short circuits the fan and your ships dash upon rock to the man, who you gonna call...

Blogger Cranberry July 03, 2014 6:38 AM  

Mr. C. read me this story last night:

"Several people playing on the opposing team of Bassel Abdul-Amir Saad, the man accused of throwing the punch, said Bieniewicz was looking down, trying to get a violation card when it happened.

Mr. C. said it wasn't that the man had roots from some foreign place of violent people, but probably got caught up in sport. Look at what happened to the footballer who bit another player in World Cup...it's a point, but it gives an inch. Never give an inch.

Mr. C. will fully come around. As his job requires such a percentage of workers be minorities or women, he sees good men with families sitting out of work while minority workers tell their foremen "fuck off, I ain't doing that [task of any sort]." Why should they work, they can't get fired, they're minorities and the contract supports them.

God be with me, Tom, but you are right. As for progress, we never get it, despite the push for it, and I'd be happy to see many of my former professors prevented, permanently, from spreading their poison any further.

Blogger Some dude July 03, 2014 6:54 AM  

@Tom Kratman

The only real life examples of this I can think of where something like this worked was Franco's Spain, and Chile under Pinochet

But I'm pretty sure they didn't start a mass culling of people based on political belief. If a person knew how to stfu and not be a problem they were left alone.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2014 6:54 AM  

Sorry Tom, missed it. It's early. Caffeine hasn't raised my blood pressure enough to engage my higher faculties yet.

Blogger Bogey July 03, 2014 6:56 AM  

Too late to avoid the FBI red flag on this one, oh well. Some of us still prefer to fish and don't appreciate someone throwing rocks and scaring the fish away.

Thing is, though, that except for putting to death all common law felons, I don't _want_ to do hardly any of that. Really don't. I just don't see any other way.

So this was just a thinking exercise then? Nevermind.

Anonymous Lysach tyche July 03, 2014 6:58 AM  

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140626-isis-insurgents-syria-iraq-looting-antiquities-archaeology/

The before after image of Apamea in the linked article should be top center news.
These basatards will just as well erase Eastern History to make way for their brave new World.
Damn them all.

Blogger Cranberry July 03, 2014 7:06 AM  

Indeed, Lysach, it's all <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYYBlPWYb7Y>part of the march on a long path.</a>

From Alexander's libraries to Persian statuary, to the occupied churches in Constantinople, Islam seeks to erase culture and rewrite history. Imagine what they will do to Rome and the churches and museums, great and small, in Europe if they are not turned away, nay, beaten back to a man to the third world hell holes of their origin.

Anonymous Col. Tardo July 03, 2014 7:07 AM  

The only missing piece is Operation Hummingbird.

Blogger Cranberry July 03, 2014 7:12 AM  

OK, as a thought exercise, then, is not this sort of thing something that happens as part of the cycle of history? A group grumbles, rises to prominence, purges or reduces to slavery/serfdom those who oppose them, and things carry on more or less peacefully for a while, until the slaves/serfs rebel and become the power, purging their former masters?

I just don't see it as an avoidable situation, despite high minded talk of live and let live and relativist philosophy.

Anonymous .308 July 03, 2014 7:15 AM  

Many "progressives" that Kratman would murder are professing followers of Jesus Christ.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2014 7:23 AM  

IMO most who fall into the prog camp are merely cult followers who simply read a script. If the script writers have an accident like falling face down in a ditch, then the cultists will be open to a new script written by better people. Progress is border enforcement and third world repatriation to rebuild their homelands and other logical thoughts.

One thing our commentators never mention and perhaps it is oversight is that most of the white lib left like at least 98% of them are weaklings. Doubt me then visit a libtard discussion and tell me how many courageous paycheck white liberals you can count.

The non-white libtard progs are racists thru and thru, they can be dealt with straight up.

Anonymous .308 July 03, 2014 7:28 AM  

PS... Kratmam's comment is so over the top, it reeks of the FBI. Shit right out of the 1990s, down to the Tim McVeigh haircut. Why you, Vox, would fall for this informant I'll never know...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan July 03, 2014 7:31 AM  

We can also turn the libtard prog coalition of hate against itself by dividing its constituencies and pitting them against one another.

Doubt me then go to kook central Daily Kos and pick a thread where two groups are locked in battle. Point being it takes a lot of energy to keep that creaky coalition together and one line you will read constantly over there is, "if you are comfortable in your coalition, your coalition is too small", so why make them comfortable?

So count me out for starting a death squad, I prefer the "Book of Five Rings" and its author's advice to be ready but make your opponent make the first move. And our libtard progs will once their propaganda loses its effectiveness.

Anonymous Sigyn July 03, 2014 7:34 AM  

How "progressive" are we talking here? Outright commies? Or do we go so far as to purge, say, conservatives who don't even realize they're feminists?

Anonymous Sigyn July 03, 2014 7:34 AM  

Note: When I say "we", I don't actually mean me. His Lordship's got his own plan for his kingdom, which I support. My question is for your benefit, guys.

Blogger Scott X July 03, 2014 7:35 AM  

I'm really getting the feeling that we are one bold leader away from revolution. As has been mentioned here many times, usually when revolutions happen they are sudden and unforeseen.
I suppose those are the result of a preference cascade. Kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure will come tumbling down. We certainly live in interesting times.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 July 03, 2014 7:38 AM  

Look, if truth doesn't work, there is no fix.
It's an interesting thought bubble but has as much chance of flying as porcus avianus.
The protestant reformation was birthed in much blood but people had to be educated to get there/ ie. to seeing that 'estate worth sacrificing for'.
Here the "white saviour industrial complex" of nice sentiments/ twitter can move mountains, is still considered 'rational'. Just say the words, tolerance and sustainable and green. And "yes we can" still brings a tear to people's eye. Progress is good, look Darwin proved it in a laboratory. Everything is improving. It's scientific.

There are no conservatives, but Christians. If they aren't defending their own 'estate' it will come out of Africa or China. Presbyterians are still being nice to poor born that way persecuted gay victims of genetics - think about it: "batshit in the bell towers".

OpenID tacticaltoolbox July 03, 2014 7:45 AM  

Better yet, just remove all police. I found out more recently when I was confronting what I later found out to be real honest to goodness burglars (four times on the same place in the recent months leading up to our confrontation) that the police are there to protect criminals from their real enemy: me. If we didn't have cops, blood would run in the streets.... all the right blood from all the right people. And so, none of my neighbor's property was recovered as myself and him were estopped from getting it back...not because we didn't know who the parties were that stole it, but because the cops would haul us off right away if we did. Never mind despite me breaking the case wide open they wouldn't do anything to the real bad guys. Don't tell yourself that this kind of thing wouldn't happen where there are "good" cops. I live in the country and the cops involved are probably the "goodest" you can find anywhere.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 7:46 AM  

PS... Kratmam's comment is so over the top, it reeks of the FBI. Shit right out of the 1990s, down to the Tim McVeigh haircut. Why you, Vox, would fall for this informant I'll never know...

For us who know Tom Kratman is, this is a good example of how those who might be in our corner intellectually, have an annoying tendency to go way too far in tinfoil-hattery and just make us all look like fools.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2014 7:47 AM  

Before Blogspot shut's this blog down for incitement, I think I should stress. We are not serious about this.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 July 03, 2014 7:48 AM  

actually "sustainable and tolerance and green" are downright magical.
details are "hate speech"
the ministry of magic would never "tolerate" "hate speech".
look, one puff of logic, yet, progressives are impervious to it. The blank expression actually means the lights have gone out.

Mark Steyn won't even work on them. // to the life boats, whatever they are.

Blogger W.LindsayWheeler July 03, 2014 7:52 AM  

Tom and Vox, both miss the real culprits. Who are the authors of Political Correctness?

The Jews. Does Tom include them?

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 7:55 AM  

Nothing like Wheeler to make a mention of killing six million people even MORE interesting to the interested parties.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2014 8:01 AM  

"Many "progressives" that Kratman would murder are professing followers of Jesus Christ."

Is Gay Jesus actually Jesus Christ?

Is rob your neighnor at gun point and give to the homeless Jesus actually Jesus Christ?

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2014 8:03 AM  

"Does Tom include them?"

He said Progs, so that we would be most of them, but not all.

Blogger Cataline Sergius July 03, 2014 8:07 AM  

The simple fact is that a purge wouldn't save our civilization. The rot is too deep, the damage is done. A collapse is inevitable. Enjoy the decline, if you are in a position to do so.

And prepare yourself and your family as best you can for what comes next.

Anonymous paradox July 03, 2014 8:16 AM  

The Sidious Doctrine.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2014 8:27 AM  

And it is an oxymoron getting the boys in blue to round up the progs.

How do you make them round themselves up?

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 8:27 AM  

That's quite an omelette he intends on making.

Anonymous TJIC July 03, 2014 8:36 AM  

Call me a squishy leftist if you will, but the phrase "killing six million people" has a bit of a bad connotation.

Anonymous cheddarman July 03, 2014 8:39 AM  

This would require a military dictator. Interesting how our prophet Vox pointed this out some time ago, noting the Cicceronian cycle of history suggests we will witness the end of the "republic" and a new form of government such as aristocracy or dictatorship, if i remember correctly

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother July 03, 2014 8:40 AM  

I wish I could be a womens' studies professor! Oh, the joy! I would have lots of fun.

First lesson: JTTOTS, bitches!

Anonymous DrTorch July 03, 2014 8:46 AM  

Here's a funny article where the author keeps insisting that she doesn't mean what she wrote every time she comes to a conclusion.

In short it turns out that race matters, culture matters, race can affect culture, and people tend to be prejudiced toward their own race. But she doesn't really mean it b/c that's raciss.

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/tiger-mom-asian-americans-achievement-education-the-problem-with-a-culture-of-excellence-83744/

Anonymous Hardcore Military Guy July 03, 2014 8:48 AM  

Call me a squishy leftist if you will, but the phrase "killing six million people" has a bit of a bad connotation.

Uh oh. Someone just bought their ticket to the death camp...

Anonymous paradox July 03, 2014 8:49 AM  

And it is an oxymoron getting the boys in blue to round up the progs.

How do you make them round themselves up?


Promise them, when they're done, a tropical island getaway with the finest hookers, booze, and drugs imaginable. Then fuel air bomb the shit out of them.

Anonymous Dennis Mahon July 03, 2014 8:50 AM  

It won't work.

"Progressivism" isn't a mental disease, it's a philosophical one; it's the belief that the human can be improved through the works of man. You can't kill an idea by killing it adherents - all you do is create "Martyrs for the Cause" ( like the Socialists who died in the "Bloody Sunday" Massacre spurred the 1905 Revolt ). You have to kill an idea by showing that it doesn't work - and, unfortunately, since its proponents control the transmission of information, that is very hard to do.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 8:50 AM  

Is Gay Jesus actually Jesus Christ?

Ask the Pope.


Is rob your neighnor at gun point and give to the homeless Jesus actually Jesus Christ?


If being a tax parasite is the metric for the gulag -- then I feel sorry for Tom given his long employment as a Federal employee.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 8:52 AM  

For us who know Tom Kratman is, this is a good example of how those who might be in our corner intellectually, have an annoying tendency to go way too far in tinfoil-hattery and just make us all look like fools.

Yeah, like Tim McVeigh. Never trust "former" servants of the State.

Anonymous VD July 03, 2014 9:03 AM  

Nothing like Wheeler to make a mention of killing six million people even MORE interesting to the interested parties.

Well, I hope they enjoy reading about the World Cup and the Hugo Awards....

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 9:04 AM  

"Before Blogspot shut's this blog down for incitement, I think I should stress. We are not serious about this." ---- 5 points for legal protection -----
"Yeah, like Tim McVeigh. Never trust "former" servants of the State."
Have you seen a picture of Kratman lately? If I tried to think up a face that said I don't give a shit about what the government says, that would be it. No offense Tom but those eyes are dead as a vultures.

Anonymous Scintan July 03, 2014 9:06 AM  

Remove the progressives and you'll remove a fair chunk of the unrepentant felons. Leave the rest of them alone.

Blogger vashine July 03, 2014 9:06 AM  

"I would go so far to suggest that if you are not an extremist with regards to a) Jesus Christ and b) Western civilization, you are objectively part of the problem. If you are prone to temporizing on elements such as sex, race, culture, sexual orientation, criminality, immigration, and the mass issuance of credit, then you are contributing to the collapse by providing intellectual cover to those who are actively, if often inadvertently, working to demolish Western civilization."

Amen. Far too many 'good' Americans and nominal Christians have zero clue how all their supposedly harmless, inconsequetial little decisions, dalliances, stances, double-speak, 'niceness', 'tolerance', moderation, reasonableness, and social decorum have not only resulted in them watching from the sidelines while the forces of evil march through the entire West, but actually rendered them quite useful and helpful to the forces of darkness and Satan.

Those of us who stand for the true Christ must recognize this, be ready for it. Our families, friends, neighbors will be split, we will be split from them. Christ said that He brings a sword, splitting parent from child, sibling from sibling. He said that those who do not hate sin and that which defies God cannot be His followers. Those who stand with Him cannot stand with anyone or anything else. Many will choose the temporal safety and material comforts of the world. We are warned not to choose the easy path of conforming, even oh-so-slightly and 'reasonably', but to choose and stand for Truth, no matter what the worldly, temporal consequences.

Victory is a given at the end. Stand with the winning side. Christ the King.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 9:07 AM  

If I tried to think up a face that said I don't give a shit about what the government says,

I have a feeling Tom cares very much about what is said about his taxpayer-paid monthly pension checks.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 9:08 AM  

Who would Jesus shoot in the back of the neck?

Anonymous bw July 03, 2014 9:08 AM  

Many "progressives" that Kratman would murder are professing followers of Jesus Christ.

No, they are coercive Statists, for whom Government is the ultimate, just Authority.
Jesus let people walk. It is voluntary. For them, the personal and political do indeed combine. You cannot hash out religious beliefs in the environment they have been convinced is necessary and inevitable. Government is the threat to your property, not disagreement over "what is Christianity exactly".
VD's list IS the new Religion. (he left out Schooling). That list is not Jesus. Jesus is not that list. Like Islam, it is a marriage of Religion and State. Exact. Same. Thing.

What took centuries to build is taking decades to dismantle

The authoritarian police state and debt/credit has certainly taken the fast track since 9.11 and just prior, but this has been a Century long process (as VD well knows).
1913 they got hold of your Currency and product of your Labor. Following WW interventions, they created the MIC/Intel complex with 1947 Nat Securities Act.
Final blow was disconnect from gold standard (whatever stable standard it might be) in early 70's. Game, set, match. It is: the Welfare / Warfare State.
And the people did Believe.




Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 9:09 AM  

So how is this proposal different from other mass murders for political purposes?

Anonymous Michael July 03, 2014 9:13 AM  

I don't agree with Tom Kratman's justification for violence. If Christians went on the offensive, the MSM and government would have a field day portraying us all as terrorists and that would set the precedence for the Christian holocaust they want so badly to implement. They would love to legitimize their victimhood status at our expense. We're obligated to remain peaceful and vigilant, to set the right example, even in the face of persecution. War is very serious and should always be the last resort, once all other options have been exhausted. Look up St. Augustine's Just War Doctrine for more on this.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 9:13 AM  

So how is this proposal different from other mass murders for political purposes?

Because it's OUR TEAM doing the murdering. Are you against our team? If so, can you please provide us your name and home address?

Anonymous Godfrey July 03, 2014 9:14 AM  

Progressives are really, by all measure, regressive. I fully expect them to soon argue the merits of dwelling naked in a cave. Or will they consider cannibalism the next great leap "forward" for mankind?

Anonymous Mel Gibson's Dad July 03, 2014 9:16 AM  

The current regime relies on white men to build, implement and maintain their system and that is also their biggest weakness. At some point we will stop working to dispossess ourselves and our children.

Are his solutions tinfoil hattery because they are impossible to achieve or are they tinfoil hattery simply because not enough are willing to do what is very possible to achieve? Our civilization was built on the backs of men who were willing to do 1000x what Kratman is proposing.

OpenID rufusdog July 03, 2014 9:17 AM  

have an annoying tendency to go way too far in tinfoil-hattery and just make us all look like fools.

LOL, seriously, on the “lets murder 1/3 of the country” thread your panties are knotting up over this comment.

What about Vox’s “bottles of government ketchup” at Sandy Hook…that “didn’t go too far”, it wasn’t “tinfoil-hattery”? Sort of the problem with being a conspiracy theory nutter isn’t it?

I’m still trying to figure out Libertarians thinking sending in the police to murder “progressives” is a good idea…you are the same guys who get all bent out of shape when cops kill dogs right, but millions of people, that’s just your cup of tea…doesn’t Vox oppose the death penalty??? LOL

But you are right, you do look like a fool.

Anonymous bw July 03, 2014 9:17 AM  

Yeah, like Tim McVeigh

How do you personally discern between the tyranny of the government and the lies it tells - and which exact lies you choose to believe them on??
Does it have to do with the "size" of the event or potential Lie?
Karl Denninger, is that you??

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 9:21 AM  

Our civilization was built on the backs of men who were willing to do 1000x what Kratman is proposing.

Our civilization was built on the backs of the mass murder of six billion people?

Son...best you leave this conversion to the adults...

Anonymous VD July 03, 2014 9:37 AM  

doesn’t Vox oppose the death penalty?

Absolutely. Who said anything about getting the government involved? You also seem to be confusing Tom's solution and my own position. I don't believe anything prescriptive of any kind will take place. I left primarily to avoid the collapse and subsequent civil war I saw coming 20 years ago. Not because I believed it was incipient, but because I believed, and still believe, it is inevitable.

I have seen nothing but confirmation of that opinion ever since. For example, when I left, the USA had a southern border. It no longer does.

Blogger njartist July 03, 2014 9:37 AM  

An entry from an American prophet:
"If any of you delude yourselves into thinking you are ready for a revolution or are a match for drones, WMD's or a police state, observe how the masters have fared in Khadaffi and Assad, as the same scorched earth will be unleashed against you.........including blaming you for the same chemical weapons Assad was which the Obama regime unleashed.
You need George Washington and you have none.
You are already an enemy of the state. Know you will die a terrorist in being an American, before this cartel is finished with you." (Lame Cherry)

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 9:37 AM  

@rufusdog 6 million people = 1/3 of country of 300 million. I can haz math?

Anonymous It is sufficient July 03, 2014 9:38 AM  

We're obligated to remain peaceful and vigilant, to set the right example, even in the face of persecution. War is very serious and should always be the last resort,

Problem here is, the Government, the peeps behind it, and its enablers (voters/tax payers) have been at war with you and yours for a Century.
Which is to say, ironically, you have been at war with yourself.
Are you ready to stand up for your interests and stop playing the enabler?

A misunderstanding of Romans 13 is going to get you nothing but (further) slavery and death.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 9:41 AM  

How do you personally discern between the tyranny of the government and the lies it tells - and which exact lies you choose to believe them on??

Easy answer. When you see "former" government employees who start spouting crazy genocidal shit on right-wing websites/events/newsletters, the odds they are FBI informants are about 60%.

Study up on COINTELPRO.

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 9:45 AM  

"If any of you delude yourselves into thinking you are ready for a revolution or are a match for drones, WMD's or a police state, observe how the masters have fared in Khadaffi and Assad, as the same scorched earth will be unleashed against you.........including blaming you for the same chemical weapons Assad was which the Obama regime unleashed.
You need George Washington and you have none.
You are already an enemy of the state. Know you will die a terrorist in being an American, before this cartel is finished with you." (Lame Cherry)
Piss that, if I die for patriotism it's not going to be for democracy and/or Yankee domination part 2. Anyone who thinks America exists within it's natural borders, has no idea what a nation is.

Anonymous Robert in Arabia July 03, 2014 9:45 AM  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2678405/Police-Man-used-playpen-bag-carry-teens-body.html We do not have enough bullets.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 9:46 AM  

@rufusdog 6 million people = 1/3 of country of 300 million. I can haz math?

You moron, the six million was only the number of "common law felons". The one third number is what you get one you start killing political dissidents.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 9:52 AM  

I cannot help but note that what starts out as "kill the criminals" moves on to "kill the ex-criminals that can't prove they are not still criminals ie... guilty until proven innocent..." then moves on to "kill the people who disagree with me politically."


yes yes... lets do the whole French Revolution thing all over again.

As I wrote on my own blog... they start out talking about freedom or liberty or civilization... but what they are actually talking about... is Blood.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 9:57 AM  

I cannot help but note that what starts out as "kill the criminals" moves on to "kill the ex-criminals that can't prove they are not still criminals ie... guilty until proven innocent..." then moves on to "kill the people who disagree with me politically."

No see they told us they would only kill this category of person and they would never ever do something like expand the category...

Anonymous Michael July 03, 2014 9:59 AM  

It is sufficient, "Problem here is, the Government, the peeps behind it, and its enablers (voters/tax payers) have been at war with you and yours for a Century.
Which is to say, ironically, you have been at war with yourself.
Are you ready to stand up for your interests and stop playing the enabler?

A misunderstanding of Romans 13 is going to get you nothing but (further) slavery and death.
"

Just because there are bad actors within government does not justify violent uprising. And if we are to suffer injustice, so be it. You can walk with your head high, knowing that you're walking the same path as the prophets and saints who preceded us.

Once again, war is a last resort and we must not be the ones who instigate it. If you create martyrs of the wicked, they will use it as a rallying cry to persecute us. As Jesus instructed, do not return evil for evil.

Blogger Weouro July 03, 2014 10:00 AM  

"genuine ignorance, willful ignorance, frightened paralysis, and wishful thinking"

There's also some frustrated desperation and reckless fury building though.

Blogger Dystopic July 03, 2014 10:01 AM  

Nah, Tom. You don't have to kill all the progressives, just deport them all to the third world. Let others do the dirty work.

Anonymous bw July 03, 2014 10:01 AM  

Study up on COINTELPRO.

Ah yes, patronization. My favorite.
Actually, I'm way ahead of you. You missed the point of my questions concerning McVeigh specifically.
Completely.

Study up on "comprehending the question and answering it".
Was McVeigh (whom you brought up) who/what the US Federal government said he was??
See your dilemna?


Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 10:01 AM  

Tom:

You used the term "civil-police relations." You are former military and I am you know that the police is civilian. Why did you use it?

"I just don't see any other way."

Is that stated in the sense of doing what must be done?

Now, I am heading over to the other thread and read.

Anonymous MontyDraxel July 03, 2014 10:07 AM  

Why murder, when chemical castration / sterilization will do the same thing, albeit a lower timescale.

JayMan's blog shows growing proof that all traits AND behavior, not to mention IQ, are heritable.

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/12/31/all-human-behavioral-traits-are-heritable/

No messy genocide... but certainly a high hurdle to pass. We've got a good number of genetic failures locked up together all over the nation. Give them 10 or 20 thousand dollars and a permanent sterilization shot.

I would gladly have my tax money go to pay the savages to be sterilized.

Anonymous MontyDraxel July 03, 2014 10:08 AM  

lower=longer timescale, in my previous post.

Blogger Dystopic July 03, 2014 10:11 AM  

Vox has the right of it. Any discussion along these lines is basically mental masturbation anyway. Civil War is coming to America. It's going to suck. And there isn't a damn thing anyone here can do about it. It's far too late for Col. Kratman's solution.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 10:12 AM  

you are the same guys who get all bent out of shape when cops kill dogs right, but millions of people, that’s just your cup of tea…

I've already been through that discussion before with him. I'm not yet on board with giving Kratman the ok to kill numbers anywhere NEAR millions. I mean, I can see the logic in it, but I don't trust it to end well.

As for Sandy Hook, I find the scenario in which the government was deeply involved with it, entirely credible. But that comment went much further, it said that one is actually STUPID to not think Kratman as a government agent provocateur.

Anonymous Meh July 03, 2014 10:13 AM  

The only real life examples of this I can think of where something like this worked was Franco's Spain, and Chile under Pinochet

But I'm pretty sure they didn't start a mass culling of people based on political belief.


Depends what you mean by "worked", but the Soviets and ChiComs purged their enemies en masse and it worked just fine.

But one should note that the CPSU and CCP were able to purge their enemies because they controlled the levers of state power.

Conservatives do not control the levers of power. Progressives do. Who is most likely to get purged?

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 10:18 AM  

I mean, I can see the logic in it, but I don't trust it to end well.

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong?

I mean, it's not like his proscription list has increased from his original proposal or anything...

OpenID rufusdog July 03, 2014 10:18 AM  

Who said anything about getting the government involved?

Tom did.

And then use all the overmilitarized police and prison guards to round up and kill or deport illegals.

But it makes sense, given his background, that he is all too comfortable having the government murder on a large scale.

Next time you want to post on some cop misbehaving, killing a dog or something, remember you are supporting a man who is suggesting we murder of millions…using cops to do it.

Oh and to “confusing your position with his”…

What more needs to be witnessed before the barbarians are rooted out, root and branch?

What would have ever given me or anyone else the impression that you support his idea. Oh but I am sure I should not have connected the dots, you meant something else by “rooted out”, a little misleading given you were commenting on what Tom wrote.

OpenID rufusdog July 03, 2014 10:24 AM  

I'm not yet on board

Well that’s very big of you, slow to sign on for mass murder, nice.

Anonymous It is sufficient July 03, 2014 10:25 AM  

Once again, war is a last resort and we must not be the ones who instigate it Michael

While not disagreeing with your attitude towards warfare one iota (I despise war as much as you do on many levels and for many often unseen reasons), I'm really asking the same type of intellectual exercise question Kratman is (I've never read him, nor would I):

Is someone/something after you to harm you and at what point are you willing to act in true self-defense, before an even greater Injustice is upon you?

You seem to believe that the Injustice of someone else having their way with you and your society is more just than ending that (immoral - ie. against Christianity I might point out) tyranny. Does God use man to carry out justice.
You believe yourself justified by your Martyrs' sacrifice. You are not one of the prophets or apostles. As for spreading Christianity and what you're particular sacrifice would be worth in the form of correcting injustice? You Specifically?. Nothing whatsoever. Yours appears to me quite the egotistical stance, while you believe it to be anything but.
You simply allow evil to triumph in this world, and give little to no hope to truly decent souls whom Jesus loves. They will live under abject slavery and tyranny - at least in comparison to how Americans have had it for several centuries. It's on the way out. You would have to argue that your belief system will gain and flourish and would thus be more of a just outcome under such circumstances.
At what point do you start your "self defense" and "just war"?




Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 10:25 AM  

Tom did.

You have to remember that this is not some self-contained article, but a continuation of an ongoing discussion that Vox simply happened to highlight. The context of it is "if Tom Kratman becomes the dictator of USA, then this is how he would fix things".

Anonymous paradox July 03, 2014 10:31 AM  

Nate

yes yes... lets do the whole French Revolution thing all over again.


soap opera announcer voice : Today the part of Robespierre will be played by Tom Kratman.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 10:32 AM  

Well that’s very big of you, slow to sign on for mass murder, nice.

There is no value judgement to it, it is just the way it is. It could be that even though libertarianism would have been the optimal choice in a certain point in history, there is no longer a pathway to it from our present situation. Which would make it a nice pipe dream at this point, even though it wasn't that always. I'm still an uncomfortable libertarian, but I could be naive.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 10:34 AM  

The context of it is "if Tom Kratman becomes the dictator of USA, then this is how he would fix things".

American Sulla, eh?

You can't fix the problems of a big powerful government by giving that government even more power.

It's like the retarded bastard child of Keynesianism if you applied both it and neoconservatism to domestic policy.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 10:34 AM  

"The context of it is "if Tom Kratman becomes the dictator of USA, then this is how he would fix things"."

Yes. And notice that in the short time its been going on... he's gone from killing criminals to killing people who disagree with him.

Kratman is a perfect example of the solution being worse than the problem.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 10:36 AM  

No doubt the fact that Josh, rufusdog, and I have disagreed... we would be added to the kill list as well. After all... we just don't love civilization enough to make the "hard choices" to preserve us. No doubt as well we must be secret progressives.

Anonymous Alexander July 03, 2014 10:38 AM  

I'm with Josh on this.

I'd also like to add: If I'm comfortable saving civilization by killing off one-hundred million people in the country... why should I particularly be concerned about the future where a child, a complete stranger to me, gets spit-roasted in the street?

The common-law felons, I can see the logic. But let's examine the one-hundred million that follow for either being progressives or not-zealously-enough traditionalists. Beyond the excellent points raised about definitions changing, what are you going to do after you've killed every progressive over 30 - round up all the college kids into football stadiums because some 22 yearold has dipshit dumb beliefs after being raised on nothing else? What about the kids - you gonna have tens of millions of orphans running around (that's gotta be great for civilization!) or do we just kill them off too?

Anonymous Peter Garstig July 03, 2014 10:39 AM  

I left primarily to avoid the collapse and subsequent civil war I saw coming 20 years ago.

So you see a different outcome in Europe? What makes you think so?

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 10:43 AM  

"So you see a different outcome in Europe? What makes you think so?"

Indeed. Vox has chosen to avoid violence by going the place where violence will burn the hottest. No people love killing each other more than europoeans... and they haven't gotten to sate that urge in a very long time.

Anonymous Porky July 03, 2014 10:48 AM  

Jesus says begin the purge.

I heard it in my heart.

Blogger Dystopic July 03, 2014 10:50 AM  

Kratman is a perfect example of the solution being worse than the problem.

Not so. Tom has indicated that this is the only viable solution, he does not seem to prefer it nor believe it would ever be done. He's saying it's this or the collapse of the country. Thus, de facto, this means the collapse of the country is inevitable.

Anonymous Michael July 03, 2014 10:51 AM  

It is sufficient, I refer you here:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

Blogger Shimshon July 03, 2014 10:51 AM  

The amount of verbiage expended arguing over a hypothetical that will never happen is somewhat amusing. That being said, I'm pretty sure that some of you fully expect a collapse. Is such a collapse and the ensuing bloodshed somehow preferable simply because there's no single dictator behind it?

Anonymous slavery awareness week July 03, 2014 10:51 AM  

libertarianism would have been the optimal choice in a certain point in history, there is no longer a pathway to it from our present situation.

Educate the populace concerning debt/credit and get control of the Currency. Show them how it can work FOR them, or at least how it is being used very much AGAINST them. De-fund the government to a great extent. Make them truly be so called "servants".
The entire purpose of propaganda is from the Negative. It seeks division and to keep out those who would grow wealth, and help others with that wealth. Cannot be allowed under the current "regime". Thus, progressive taxation (to include inflation and death taxes).
They cannot allow people to be free from their system: debt, and now techno (total info awareness). It is the former, however that is the root of the latter.
An awareness of the propaganda, a disbelief that your "servants" actually are, and control of your property. A big ask, I know.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 10:51 AM  

He's saying it's this or the collapse of the country.

Which is of course an absurd notion.

Anonymous Alexander July 03, 2014 10:52 AM  

No, I think Vox's move is logical given his beliefs.

It might burn hotter in Europe, but the sides will be native versus Africans and Muslims, with a round of hangings against the white ruling class. Vox has given himself a long time to be accepted into his community, and is not hostile to the native population and culture. There's always a chance of a total backlash against anyone remotely foreign, but it seems a smart bet that Vox will find himself in a civil war with two major sides, and he'll be on the side of the majority.

Good fuckin' luck when shit hits the states. Who the government allies with will be in the air, but it certainly won't be the Anglo traditionalist. The numbers are less absolute, the geography is much more blurred, and everybody on the outside will be actively helping insure America cannibalizes itself as long and as bloodily as possible.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 10:54 AM  

@Nate
Isn't Italy being overrun by immigrants, legal and illegal, too? Not to mention secessionist northern Italy.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 10:55 AM  

Is such a collapse and the ensuing bloodshed somehow preferable simply because there's no single dictator behind it?

Single dictators have racked up a formidable body count. No war even comes close to what Mao did. And Hitler and Stalin killed just stupid numbers of people.

The kraut plan to kill upwards of 100 million people only makes sense from a utilitarian perspective if you assume that more than 100 million people will die as a result of the collapse.

Blogger Dystopic July 03, 2014 10:56 AM  

@Josh: "Which is of course an absurd notion."

Is it? Why do you think so? Think a vibrant, multicultural America is going to be a beacon of hope for centuries to come?

Come now. There's some oceanfront property in Colorado that I can sell you. Real nice view, you know?

Blogger Shimshon July 03, 2014 10:56 AM  

Italy is also a logical choice in one wants to continue in a Western country.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 10:57 AM  

I think that the "kill all criminals that cannot be rehabilitated" was espoused by Saint Augustine. ????

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 11:00 AM  

"Not so. Tom has indicated that this is the only viable solution, he does not seem to prefer it nor believe it would ever be done. He's saying it's this or the collapse of the country. Thus, de facto, this means the collapse of the country is inevitable."

I'm quite sure Stalin believed that killing 100 million farmers was the only possible solution as well. No doubt Stalin would've preferred another solution as well.

This is fucking madness. This is blackest hole of human evil.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 11:01 AM  

You people are justifying the mass murder of millions for the greater good.

You are doing exactly what you accuse the Left of doing.

It is pathetic. It is sickening.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:02 AM  

Is it? Why do you think so? Think a vibrant, multicultural America is going to be a beacon of hope for centuries to come?

It's absurd because it's a false dilemma.It's the equivalent of a two year old stating that either they get to eat all the candy or you hate them.

A country that can only be held together through mass murder will eventually collapse. Look at Iraq for example.

Blogger Shimshon July 03, 2014 11:02 AM  

Josh, given just how clueless and soft and unprepared Americans are, I wouldn't be surprised if 100M end up dead. Even before then, we're looking at things getting bad. As just one example, unless the drought ends in the West (which could happen), Lake Mead will be low enough in a few years that Las Vegas, home to several million people, will be without water. In the midst of an inhospitable desert. Yeah, that'll end up well.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:04 AM  

You people are justifying the mass murder of millions for the greater good.

You are doing exactly what you accuse the Left of doing.

It is pathetic. It is sickening.


They're just another shade of progressive. Albeit a more aggressive masculine one. They believe that the predictability of mankind can be achieved if you kill enough undesirables.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:06 AM  

Josh, given just how clueless and soft and unprepared Americans are, I wouldn't be surprised if 100M end up dead.

We had to kill millions of Americans...to prevent millions of Americans from being killed...

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 11:09 AM  

I totally get it emotionally. Who in his right, seeing all the crime and suffering of innocents, does not get their ire raised at the brutes? But that is where it has to end, at righteous indignation and a proportional application of justice and punishment.

Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth -- equity in the judgement

Use of true scales -- no perjury, no bias/favoritism, no prejudice

Anonymous Porky July 03, 2014 11:10 AM  

Jesus says take up your sword and stab an immigrant.

I heard it in my heart.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:12 AM  

We had to kill millions of Americans...to prevent millions of Americans from being killed...

The rationale would be that he arranges that number of guilty Americans to be killed in order to save that number of innocent Americans.

The big problem is just that when someone actually starts killing in the millions, then "innocent" tends to acquire another meaning than it had initially. It still has an objective definition, of course, but at that point the person has such machinery behind him that he is able to enforce his definition of "innocent" for the next few decades.

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2014 11:13 AM  

You can walk with your head high, knowing that you're walking the same path as the prophets and saints who preceded us.

You may choose "martyrdom" for yourself if you truly believe that kneeling to the state is a form of martyrdom. Luckily, you may not choose it for others. You want to elevate the words of Paul above the words of God. What part of "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" do you not comprehend?

Just because there are bad actors within government does not justify violent uprising.

Can you identify 50 upright men in that den of iniquity? 10?

Questions: does the failure of that same gov't to punish those bad actors justify uprising? If not, does the gov't protecting those bad actors from punishment justify uprising?

Bonus question: if a violent uprising were to overthrow your gov't and institute a new, different gov't, would you support the new gov't or at least argue that no one should try to overthrow it?

Anonymous VD July 03, 2014 11:14 AM  

So you see a different outcome in Europe? What makes you think so?

Europe is still nationalistic. Europe has, in percentage terms, about one-tenth the number of foreign invaders that the USA has. Remember, most of Europe's "aliens" are from other parts of the EU. Things get even a bit difficult, the Portuguese will leave Italy, the Germans will leave Switzerland, and the Poles will leave the UK.

I suspect things will start in Europe sooner, but get considerably nastier in the USA. The Europeans are also much better prepared for difficult than the USA, since everything is smaller scale and therefore less precarious.

Anonymous Alexander July 03, 2014 11:14 AM  

As it turns out, I *do* have a solution for one of the above questions:

Maybe, mayyyyybe, millions of people shouldn't be living in a god-forsaken desert when they have an entire continent freely accessible to them, most of which is among the most hospitable for human habitation places on earth!

It's New Orleans all over again. Maybe it's a bad idea, when you have a continent sized country, to live below sea level between an enormous river, an ocean, and a lake...

Both situations are stupid, but neither requires a nine-digit body count.

Blogger Shimshon July 03, 2014 11:15 AM  

"We had to kill millions of Americans...to prevent millions of Americans from being killed..."

Except I didn't exactly say that (not in that statement). I said that I expect a lot of deaths in the collapse. You've got the most armed populace on the planet, perhaps in all of history. Plus lots of fools who don't or refuse to see it coming, many located in areas that will suffer tremendously with the breakdown of infrastructure.

This is not a "destroy the village to save it" statement. The village will destroy itself, and there will be a lot of collateral damage.

Anonymous Amir Larijani July 03, 2014 11:18 AM  

I like Tom Kratman, but I think he's wrong here, sort of. It won't take a government to kill off the Progs. They'll stoke enough fighting that will produce sufficient backlash against them by non-government folks.

For one thing, when the system implodes, the Progs will be the ones impacted the hardest, as a mother lode of government employees--most of them Progs--will be out of a job and with most of their portfolios in ruins. They will demand bailouts, but it won't happen. Some might be able to retreat to remote villas, but many others will remain in cities. They will become prey to the gangs, thugs, and other malcontents that they helped empower over the decades.

It will suck for us, it will likely suck even more for them. Anyone in or near the big cities is going to be in a world of hurt.

The Progs will be demanding more and more from government, and the rest of us will have had enough of their crap. We will be better-armed. The military will be in disarray, as (a) their combat-readiness is already in tatters, (b) they will be out of money, (c) military people won't work for free, and (d) military folks are going to be divided in terms of their loyalties. (Some suckups will do the bidding of government, whereas many others will figure out who those domestic enemies are.)

You'll see a series of shooting wars, but the military won't be able to hold off various regional insurgencies. Our military has not been able to finish off the Taliban after 13 years and a huge amount of funding.

When it all goes down--and it will--you'll probably see a regional breakup, and it will get very ugly. The economy will be totally hosed. People in the big cities will starve, as supermarkets will quickly run out of food, with distribution severely-impacted. How you fare may depend on what region in which you happen to live.

(Tom: I hope you're not in Boston when the defecation slams into the ventilation.)

What will happen to the Southwest, I dunno. Whether we'll hold off the Mexicans is going to depend on a lot of things happening, none of them pleasant. In that microcosm, Tom is probably not far from the truth.

In the Southeast, it will be a little more stable. The Northeast is hosed. Much of the Midwest is hosed. The Northwest will be fragmented. The Beltway will be in ruins.

But the Republic will be done. I will not be happy about that, but the cultural decline has likely made that outcome inevitable.

But organized mass murder? I don't see that happening. I do, however, see a fair amount of fighting breaking out, and the death toll from that will get ugly. There will be mass carnage in the cities, and the sum total of that may be in the range of which Tom is speaking.

The upshot: Tom may be wrong about the how, but he's right in that it will involve a very high body count. Personally, I think his estimated death toll is low.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 11:18 AM  

Quit Stilicho. Go read Romans 13 and obey Nero (/sarcasm off). I do not want to mention you-know-who, so that I cannot be convicted of "the G-law".


New Testament Theology of the State, Part 2
By Norman Horn
http://libertarianchristians.com/2008/11/28/new-testament-theology-2/


Anonymous VD July 03, 2014 11:19 AM  

Italy being overrun by immigrants, legal and illegal, too? Not to mention secessionist northern Italy.

This is what amuses me. That's the point! What the Italians consider "overrun" is one million Africans in a population of 61 million. What Americans consider "hmm, perhaps we should consider the possibility of rethinking this" is 60 million aliens in a population of 300 million.

1 in 60 vs 1 in 5. Which odds do you prefer?

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 11:20 AM  

"Both situations are stupid, but neither requires a nine-digit body count"

Party pooper.

OpenID gnardopolo July 03, 2014 11:21 AM  

@MontyDraxel:

So a return to eugenics? Weed out the undesirables, use our obviously superior wisdom to cull humanity of the flawed and the potentially flawed?

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:22 AM  

But organized mass murder? I don't see that happening.

We still have to remember that the context of this discussion* is that Tom suddenly finds himself the dictator of USA. In other words, this is a thought experiment. He isn't saying he thinks it will actually happen. He even MIGHT think that, but he isn't saying it, at least yet.

*which isn't evident from the quoted section because it was originally just a comment that assumed the reader to be familiar with what has been said before

Blogger JDC July 03, 2014 11:22 AM  

As much as I like the idea of purging the undesirables for the purposes of maintaining culture, my faith cannot embrace that pathway, even as a rhetorical device. Trouble is coming, and anyone with an ounce of sanity can see it. A purge is undoubtedly coming - and my guess is that the antagonist will be progressive in nature. The seeds are being sown. It begins with peaceful protests and the desire for "social justice." Then, a few businesses are forced to run their businesses with the new understanding of utopia. Silence will be seen as hate, and hate will have to be eliminated - all the while Rome is burning.

Businesses are openly requiring their employees to embrace the LGBT initiative. Even the gub'ment has gotten into the mix - "It's also been true in the Department of Justice right now, directly under this president, his buddy, Eric Holder. There's a memo that directs that you must openly embrace gay marriage and homosexuality. And silence is considered to be disapproval," Gohmert said, according to CQ Transcriptions.

Soon churches will be forced to embrace the initiative or face expulsion from the tax shelters that they have prospered from for so long (some will say that is good, and I cannot disagree). Then trouble will come. It always does. People will kill and believe they are on the moral high ground. The church will exist, but the nature of it will be quite different. Perhaps it is the cleaning with fuller's soap that is needed for the church.

IMO Jesus addressed this conundrum, and what the Christian is to do in Luke's gospel. Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” (Luke 13:1-5).

When catastrophe strikes we can respond in a number of different ways, but here Jesus clearly says, "Repent or perish." The suffering is going to be great. The weakest will be affected most - the poor, the orphan the widow. Precisely the target audience God has commanded us to look after.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:22 AM  

The south and Texas will have it much better than the Yankee hell holes in the northeast, midwest, and west coast.

The only southrons who would be upset about a breakdown of the federal government are the "BOMB scary brown foreigners for Jesus" neocon lunatics.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:24 AM  

We still have to remember that the context of this discussion* is that Tom suddenly finds himself the dictator of USA

Funny how that person so often ends up being a former colonel...

Anonymous Mel Gibson's Dad July 03, 2014 11:25 AM  

Nate and Josh want to make sure that everyone suffers equally in the coming apocalypse. LOL

Blogger JDC July 03, 2014 11:26 AM  

The south and Texas will have it much better than the Yankee hell holes in the northeast, midwest, and west coast.

Maybe...but the thought did occur to me that we will have a better time in Michigan keeping our newly killed venison and walleye preserved in our frozen paradise than the burning milieu of the South.

Anonymous Daniel July 03, 2014 11:28 AM  

Let me offer a much less holistic solution, in no particular order:
1. Identify your job, and do it.
2. Mentor at least one millenial, even if you are a millenial.
3. Know your friend(s) and build that relationship every day.
4. Preserve knowledge, preferably in hard form with a digital, printable back up.
5. Pray at least once a day and read the Word of God.
6. Be compassionate to the poor. Love your neighbor. Who is your neighbor?


It won't get a fence built. It won't stop a civil war if it comes. Maybe it still all ends with the Road Warrior turning his back on a savage land. But civilization is not a central state idea. Western Civilization did not come about by dictatorship. It happened because a Spirit moved in the hearts of men, and the men who continue to kindle that may or may not die because of Who they harbor in their hearts, and their harboring may or may not result in small pockets of civilization being preserved like seeds for the future trees of liberty.

But the preservation of this World, while important-while even mandated in Genesis-is not the Holy Grail. The Big Idea, the Foundation of All Good...is the Resurrection.

Maranatha.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:28 AM  

Nate and Josh want to make sure that everyone suffers equally in the coming apocalypse. LOL

No, Nate and Josh are historically literate enough to know that giving the government massive amounts of power to kill its own people always ends badly.

Anonymous it is sufficient July 03, 2014 11:30 AM  

It is sufficient, I refer you here: Michael

I am not, nor would I ever be an authoritarian RC, my friend. I needn't be to be washed in the blood. You would have to argue, I presume, that I'm begging the question - at least? Of course, I could argue, What is Christianity and have you begging the question.
I was simply hoping you would explain it to me in your terms, based on your reasoning and experience. Who is to say that RC doctrine is correct? or your interpretation of their interpretation of ...
I actually referenced the RC "just war" doctrine. I'm simply asking you when and where? Your problem, like that of we "protestants", is that not only is your "church of Jesus" standing idly by, it's enabling the injustice and lies and theft and murder (and rape). Passivity =/ Justice. It's all taking place right up in your face - as a man before God - and yet you look to some Institution to tell you what to think. Human lives and that of relatively innocent children are on the line. Your argument is to check with your Authorities? (who I'm sure are completely without outside influences. Totally). The Institutions are whores for mammon through tax incentives. Again. Money and power.
Silence is consent. Actions are verbage too - the only productive kind (not referring to killing here - quite the opposite).

It's been so easy for so long for the West. Sacrifice on someone's part is coming one way or another. Its a shame for the children that those before us were not more vigilant. Like it or not, it's coming down on you, Michael - and your church either couldn't or wouldn't stop it (I don't believe in inevitability or determinism concerning this subject matter, personally).


Anonymous Shut Up, Nate July 03, 2014 11:31 AM  

"You people are justifying the mass murder of millions for the greater good. You are doing exactly what you accuse the Left of doing. It is pathetic. It is sickening."

NAY! The trumpets have sounded! Remove yourself from your comfy chair, grab your guns, and go out blazing! 'Tis the only logical solution to our plight. Murder them before they murder you.

So, who is FIRST on this here blog to start the shooting? Otherwise, it's just a waste of digital ink and time...Tom, are you man enough to begin the purge, or is merely fantasy talk?

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:36 AM  

Tom, are you man enough to begin the purge, or is merely fantasy talk?

As I've been pointing out several times now, it is precisely that. You just have to be familiar with the context. The comment was not MEANT to be made into a separate post. It didn't contain the necessary context for that.

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 11:36 AM  

"You moron, the six million was only the number of "common law felons"." Fuck you, do you really think I didn't take that into account? I assumed one would execute political opponents based on extremity of views. Is anyone even considering murdering everyone who ever voted democrat? A number wasn't given for progs murdered, so I assumed it wouldn't be statistically significant

OpenID gnardopolo July 03, 2014 11:39 AM  

If the country collapses, the area to be most likely to lose every modern service first will be the Southwest, including Southern California. Those places use a considerable amount of resources from outside their areas to make their condition work: not only is Las Vegas not a very tenable settlement (on a large scale), but neither is Phoenix, L.A., or Albuquerque. So Mexico will invade to find... desert. And they don't really have the resources to conquer or hold that kind of area (they've already lost their northern states).

So America retreats to its more fertile areas, and again, the presence of 300 million privately owned firearms makes a world of difference when the state starts losing control.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:40 AM  

A number wasn't given for progs murdered, so I assumed it wouldn't be statistically significant

Yeah, we would need clarification on whether "progressive", in the sense of potentially executing him, means anyone who holds progressive views, or anyone who has done significant, actual things to further progressive ends.

What is the order of magnitude of the number of these executed progressives?

Anonymous Alexander July 03, 2014 11:41 AM  

... You *just said* you "assumed it wouldn't be statistically significant". Ergo, yes - I think it's safe to say you didn't take it into account.

Anonymous Porky July 03, 2014 11:42 AM  

BOMB scary brown foreigners for Jesus

You heard Him in your heart too?!?

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:43 AM  

I just assumed that the definition of progressive would be very limited initially but would inexorably expand until it included anyone who disagreed with the regime.

Because that's what usually happens in those scenarios.

Anonymous Michael July 03, 2014 11:45 AM  

Stilicho, "You may choose 'martyrdom' for yourself if you truly believe that kneeling to the state is a form of martyrdom. Luckily, you may not choose it for others. You want to elevate the words of Paul above the words of God. What part of 'Thou shalt have no other gods before Me' do you not comprehend?"

Do you understand what Christian martyrdom entails? It certainly doesn't entail "kneeling before the state." I'm not advocating that we serve the state; rather, we ought disobey unjust laws (or decrees, if you prefer) which infringe upon our rights, most especially to live as devout Christians.

"Can you identify 50 upright men in that den of iniquity? 10?"

No.

"Questions: does the failure of that same gov't to punish those bad actors justify uprising? If not, does the gov't protecting those bad actors from punishment justify uprising?"

I guess that would depend upon how much injustice and corruption the people are willing to tolerate.

"Bonus question: if a violent uprising were to overthrow your gov't and institute a new, different gov't, would you support the new gov't or at least argue that no one should try to overthrow it?"

That would depend upon what system of "new government" is being implemented. Clearly the American republic needed stronger safeguards against this Marxist uprising we've witnessed ascend from within. It may be that they're intentionally trying to foster an uprising so as to justify institutionalizing their NWO apparatus as if it were a necessary good "to throw off the yoke of tyranny," despite it being the very embodiment of tyranny, the very end product which the current government desires to attain.

Anonymous Rolf July 03, 2014 11:45 AM  

Well, compared to the typical leftist/statist/progressive proposal of rounding up and shooting millions of the productive class who disagree with them politically first, and using the violent felons as the implementation/enforcement arm of government, the proposal looks downright modest. It might be fringe, but it has a better chance of working than many of the proposed "solutions" being kicked around by the political class. It also has the advantage of being, in part, self (ahem) executing. That is, if you shoot all the serious felons (and a few of the unconvicted bankers, just to make sure they understand the situation), then just looking hard at the progs and illegals will make them deport themselves, pronto.
As you say, Tom, I'd like to think there are better solutions, but....

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:47 AM  

When you've killed your first million, history would suggest that it becomes psychologically WAY too easy to kill the millionth and first. And at that point the machinery is so efficient that there is nothing that can stop the steamroller anymore, except an act of God.

Then, the only thing holding back absolute tyranny and totalitarianism is the psyche of one man. Who has already killed a million.

Blogger justaguy July 03, 2014 11:49 AM  

With the proliferation of felonies by the progressive state in order to further control the masses, as indicated in several books i.e. six felonies a day, how do you split out the dangerous common law felonies- do we really even know what common law felonies are and can we agree on which ones go to capital punishment. Think England in an earlier era where minor theft could mean the gallows or could mean other punishment.

the other issue is that we would lose control of it. Do we really want to give a bunch of progressive bureaucrats this power when they can assign idiocy such as violating a terms of service on the internet as a felony and assign the death penalty? The IRS already goes after conservatives- when we give them death power- such as Obamacare- can we resist it?

Blogger Dystopic July 03, 2014 11:52 AM  

Common Law felonies are pretty obvious to anyone with a degree of sense: Murder/Attempted Murder, Rape, Armed Robbery... that sort of thing. They are crimes that contain a strong component of uncivilized violence. A mere bar fight doesn't do it. Stabbing somebody in the face to steal their wallet does.

Anonymous Colonel Mike Mustard July 03, 2014 11:55 AM  

Funny how the kill-list include everyone but the police and military and ex-military.

Funny that should work.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 11:55 AM  

The nine common-law felonies were: murder, robbery, manslaughter, rape, sodomy, larceny, arson, mayhem and burglary.

Well, the casts of backdoor sluts I-XXV are screwed.

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 11:55 AM  

"You *just said* you "assumed it wouldn't be statistically significant". Ergo, yes - I think it's safe to say you didn't take it into account. " Do I have to explain everything? I guess imps don't think with their minds. There is a difference between not realizing that he was talking about a different group of murders and interpreting a statement in a manner that you think is correct. Which one is it or are you just going to be a winy kid and pick both?

"I just assumed that the definition of progressive would be very limited initially but would inexorably expand until it included anyone who disagreed with the regime." Way to be a #offtopicpussy if you had your way, every time anyone suggested something with negative consequences you'd only come to a decision after you had multiplied the negative consequences by a power of 10.

Anonymous NorthernHamlet July 03, 2014 11:56 AM  

Ilk,

Oh you mean he was only "joking"?

You mean this would only be a solution if he had 100% complete dictator power but would never be his vote if he had just a little tiny bit of power in the system?

As a liberal, if I said something even remotely similar as a "thought experiment", I'd likely never hear the end of it from many of you. Because... leftissss.




Vox,

You're prone to presenting things sensationally and without context, but this is over the top. You and Nate have been helpful in challenging me in ways I couldn't have imagined. However, I'm laying off this blog for a bit in disgust.

And I can promise you... I'll never sleep with you either!

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 11:56 AM  

The comment was not MEANT to be made into a separate post. It didn't contain the necessary context for that.

Then why did Vox up it up???

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:56 AM  

From Kratman's perspective, I completely understand it. Nobody thinks THEY will go mad.

But in this hypothetical scenario, I imagine myself as being one of those who, metaphorically speaking, were giving the keys of this machine to him.

Am I going to feel like a total shmuck, hanging on the cross with crows eating at my eyes, for having done that, much further down the road? THAT'S what I'm thinking.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 11:59 AM  

Oh you mean he was only "joking"?

Absolutely not. I just mean, the message isn't "ok, now pick up some guns and start shooting progressives". This assumes an unspecific chain of events between here and now, and Tom finding himself on the dictator's throne. Probably an amount of "collapse" would have happened in between, and the question is, do we now let it completely take its course, or do we seat a Strongman on the throne.


Then why did Vox up it up???

Probably because this act amused him. But this is no fault of Kratman's.

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 12:01 PM  

"Bonus question: if a violent uprising were to overthrow your gov't and institute a new, different gov't, would you support the new gov't or at least argue that no one should try to overthrow it?" If a gov't is an empire, everyone has a moral duty to bring it down, no questions asked, but if it's your own nation, that is if you live on the north eastern seaboard, things get a little messy.

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 12:01 PM  

'This is what amuses me. That's the point! What the Italians consider "overrun" is one million Africans in a population of 61 million. What Americans consider "hmm, perhaps we should consider the possibility of rethinking this" is 60 million aliens in a population of 300 million.

1 in 60 vs 1 in 5. Which odds do you prefer?"

Allow me to point out what you're ignoring. Population density. That is to say... one can easily divide america's square mileage up to accommodate the additional population in separate countries.

Italy is really not that big. Europe itself is not that big.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 12:02 PM  

As a liberal, if I said something even remotely similar as a "thought experiment", I'd likely never hear the end of it from many of you. Because... leftissss.

Hell we still give dh shit from time to time for his comment about shoving us into the ovens.

But that was back when he was a heathen leftist.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2014 12:06 PM  

Ain't nobody getting to Valhalla if everyone dies of old age.

Blogger Jourdan July 03, 2014 12:08 PM  

I share VD's opinion with regard to Europe's nations being more likely to survive and win than the United States. I am half-American, half-European by birth and have lived/worked in both places as an adult, for years at at in both.

VD is *absolutely* correct when he points out the European tolerance for "diversity" is many, many times lower than that of America. Americans are usually startled to learn there is even an issue about immigration, they see so few non-nationals around them when they are in Europe. (Exception: Paris, Marseilles, London)

And, in Europe, we see credible, strong opposition parties directly and openly opposing this invasion, in nearly every country.

In the U.S. NO mainstream political movement, from the so-called far right to the so-called far left (i.e. say, the NRO/Santorum wing all the way out to DSA wing of the Democratic Party) opposes immigration, legal and illegal, in any form whatsoever.

Additionally, an accident of our history--the presence of millions of Africans at the founding--left us unusually susceptible to civic, or proposition-based, concepts of citizenship. Europe, on the other hand, while paying lip service to modern American democratic norms, remains for the most part a group of nation-states. Thus, Europe has a much easier job of changing the meta-political situation. The U.S. lacks even a modern political rhetoric in which words exist that challenge the current regime.

As for me, personally. I have a large number of children and my current situation has me for all intents and purposes trapped in place for four years. However, as soon as that situation ends, my wife and I are re-locating to Europe. We are also planning to have all our children attend university there.

In short, we are bugging out, making a bet on our grandchildren's behalf.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 12:08 PM  

Allow me to point out what you're ignoring. Population density. That is to say... one can easily divide america's square mileage up to accommodate the additional population in separate countries.

Italy is really not that big. Europe itself is not that big.


Population density:
Italy 520/sqmi
USA 90/sqmi

Anonymous Michael July 03, 2014 12:08 PM  

It is sufficient, in no way do I advocate that people passively adhere to the bad actions of an overbearing government. But there are many methods besides violence that we must exhaust, such as civil disobedience. Right now, the government enacts most of its anti-Christian hostility through the proxy of fascist private enterprises, such as what happened to Brendan Eich. Apparently, Chase conducted an internal survey of their employees asking them whether they were either part of the LGBT "community" or were supportive, so as to create a database (which you can bet will wind up in the hands of a federal agency) in order to eventually punish dissenters.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/07/01/Chase-Bank-Revealed-as-Bank-Hounding-Employees-about-LGBT-Support

For the time being, we can fight against this aggression by not supporting them in any way, shape or form. Reading the comments section in the article, many people are actively boycotting them by closing their bank accounts.

But I digress. The Catholic Church isn't advocating that we simply lay down and submit before tyrannical state. But nor does it advocate that we run in guns blazing. The important point you seem to miss in all of this is that that's exactly what the state is trying to egg us on to do, so as to justify war against the people. No matter how much you despise the notion, we must be patient and wait for them to commit the big mistake, the straw that broke the camel's back, so as to justify overthrow. Right now they're getting desperate, rushing through things and making big mistakes, causing public opinion to shift against them on an unprecedented level. The majority don't even trust the MSM anymore, which is a great sign. We can ill afford to sacrifice this momentum just because you're gung ho for civil uprising.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 12:09 PM  

Here's where the issue might hypothetically realize itself: Let's say that at some point we find Tom Kratman in a position where he might very credibly acquire the power of an absolute dictator. We already know his plan, due to these discussions.

What do we now do? Do we actively work against it? Perhaps try to assassinate him? Well, then there is the question that since the political environment is clearly fertile for a Strongman to arrive, who ELSE is going to take his place?

Or do we just go about our business, hoping it will all sort itself out somehow?

None of these options is a moral slam-dunk.

Anonymous Josh July 03, 2014 12:09 PM  

Also, CONUS population density is 104/sq.mi.

Anonymous rho July 03, 2014 12:10 PM  

Is it? Why do you think so? Think a vibrant, multicultural America is going to be a beacon of hope for centuries to come?

As I recall, the talk around here used to go that America was going to undergo defacto segregation and basically split up into ethnic states, and there was nothing we could do about it.

I'm not sure why mass murder has became a "logical alternative," but the logic sucks.

I suspect that if you spend too much time looking for enemies you'll eventually find them. You'll find them everywhere.

Anonymous x July 03, 2014 12:11 PM  

This assumes an unspecific chain of events between here and now, and Tom finding himself on the dictator's throne

Didn't take long for Tom to go from Mary Sue in his novels throwing people into woodchippers... to start planning his dictatorship followed by mass murders and kill lists.

What Tom wrote is only about 1000% worse than anything Scalzi has ever written. Tom is either a sick freak, or an FBI informant. But I suppose Tom hasn't raped any children yet... so that's a point in his favor.

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2014 12:12 PM  

Michael, thanks for your answers. A few follow ups:

rather, we ought disobey unjust laws (or decrees, if you prefer) which infringe upon our rights, most especially to live as devout Christians.

Fair enough, but what action do you think is justified when the state uses violence (or the credible threat of violence) to force you to comply with such infringements?


"Questions: does the failure of that same gov't to punish those bad actors justify uprising? If not, does the gov't protecting those bad actors from punishment justify uprising?"

I guess that would depend upon how much injustice and corruption the people are willing to tolerate.


I think you misapprehended the question. The willingness of the people to tolerate something is not a measure of whether an action is justified for a Christian to take.

Anonymous Negging Nigger July 03, 2014 12:13 PM  

So you're advocating killing the PUAs too? They're clearly helping to hasten the collapse.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia July 03, 2014 12:16 PM  

Ain't nobody going to be killing anybody.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 12:16 PM  

I mean, we write these things in relative safety now. We know what's coming, but very few of us are probably afraid that right now, someone will break in and try to rape his wife and daughter. I mean, actually, physically afraid, right now. Not sometime in the future.

But let's say we have already experienced some of that. How are we going to feel THEN about this Strongman option, instead of continuing to hope for a libertarian paradise, somehow, sometime? I don't know. It's very hard to REALLY imagine one's thought-patterns in such a scenario. I could very well imagine myself thinking "Killing 50%? No way in hell, WAY too low!"

Anonymous Negging Nigger July 03, 2014 12:18 PM  

Markku, get back to your cubicle.

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 03, 2014 12:19 PM  

I headed an invasion of a city that contains many progressives, for which I am called evil. Now I see wherein you estimate I sinned: I meant to conquer, not to exterminate.

It is always instructive to linger among you, you know.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 12:21 PM  

Markku, get back to your cubicle.

Nigger, please!

Anonymous Negging Nigger July 03, 2014 12:22 PM  

What would actually be interesting is if one of the crazies reading this board actually tried acting out Vox's fantasies and Vox actually had to take accountability for his trolling.

Anonymous Dr. J July 03, 2014 12:24 PM  

Dang - Nate and Josh beat me to the pop density point. Good show.

Nate and Josh have the right of it on this topic. Peaceful dissolution and fragmentation along ethnic lines a la the former Soviet Union remains a possibility. Who would have predicted Russia would be the standard bearer for a free nationalist state 20 years ago?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn July 03, 2014 12:26 PM  

What would actually be interesting is if one of the crazies reading this board actually tried acting out Vox's fantasies and Vox actually had to take accountability for his trolling.

Interesting, you say?

Blogger Nate July 03, 2014 12:27 PM  

"Who would have predicted Russia would be the standard bearer for a free nationalist state 20 years ago?"

I did.

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 12:28 PM  

"Killing 50%? No way in hell, WAY too low!" If you're going to kill people you have to do it in the right way. Think if we had just started killing every active member of the TSA/ and a couple of illegals every now and then 3 years ago, we probably wouldn't be talking about killing 6 million people. The longer you wait, the more the blood will flow. People don't want to be on the same side as the dead bodies, but if bodies are piling up everywhere, whats the diff? Im starting to think that might even be Obama's plan: saturate potentially rebellious parts of US with illegals, so that if things get troublesome he can use them as meat shields.

Blogger Markku July 03, 2014 12:30 PM  

But enough about theoretical considerations. What should we ACTUALLY do? Go save souls, like Beau. He's poaching from Satan from the human material that falls to the bottom, that has absolutely nothing left because of very things that have happened in society, due to which we have this discussion in the first place. No power, no dignity. That harvest is wide and ripe now.

I say this to my shame. Because I'm not doing that.

Blogger Shimshon July 03, 2014 12:34 PM  

Vox, regarding Italy, the population may very well be 60M, but my understanding is that it has one of the lowest birthrates in the world, if not the lowest. It's something like 1.2 children per woman, is it not? I have also read that entire villages are already depopulated. Any comments on the long term viability of such of society?

Anonymous Dr. J July 03, 2014 12:35 PM  

I did.

At the time that looked very unlikely. Yeltsin was a buffoon and the oligarchs were stripping everything of value. They had a similar immigration problem and a population in serious decline from 70 years of atheistic communist rule.

It's been an amazing turnaround. And lookee - Tsar Putin hasn't had to engage in any mass killings either.

Anonymous Rev. Porky July 03, 2014 12:36 PM  

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and nail a Guatemalan to it.

Blogger Bogey July 03, 2014 12:41 PM  

- Tom Kratman is a tax parasite.He draws a pension from Uncle Sam. A step or two away from being a useless welfare bum.

- Tom is guilty of miscegation. By marrying a mestizo, he polluted the white race.


Precisely there are no better angels to decide. I don't trust progressives, conservatives, or libertarians. They will all fuck it up. Oh, the founders and preceding generations of white men in control did such a great job that they gave it all up to the progressives. The conversation were having right now is only do to white men giving ground, which means they can't be trusted either. Humanity is doomed.

The only hope is that God will take some pity on those who still love him and fear him.

Anonymous Real Talk July 03, 2014 12:41 PM  

and nail a Guatemalan to it.

Panamanians work well too. What say you Tom? We know you're reading every word here...

Anonymous Real Talk July 03, 2014 12:45 PM  

Shut up retard.

Is she white or not?

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 12:46 PM  

"The only hope is that God will take some pity on those who still love him and fear him." Yeah that's likely, especially when said people who love and fear him are not willing to protect those things he loves. /s

Anonymous Logo July 03, 2014 12:46 PM  

Of course Nate, Josh, etc, are right. What Kratman is proposing is evil, and an evil greater than what our current government has yet perpetrated.

His "solutions" are horrid and far worse than the problem. Giving the state the ability to kill people retroactively for crimes they were already convicted of, the sentences of which they've already served - this is helping? This, he deems an improvement?

A man who forty years ago was convicted of larceny in his youth, has committed no crime since, now perhaps a grandfather, a family-man, hard working, contrite - such a man should be torn from his family, in the sight, perhaps, of his progeny, and taken off and killed?

Going around retroactively killing people for crimes they were convicted of, and sentences they served years ago?

And then to hunt down and murder every prog - every dumb dupe brought up on progressive propaganda, progs by programming, neither knowing nor understanding anything else, unthinking, not malicious, but merely mundane - they are worthy of death? And there are millions of them, in this country. Kratman would kill them all?

And who decides how progressive one has to be, before he's marked for death, anyway? Who decides what counts as a progressive? If a man denies he's a prog, do you torture him to find out the truth? Rifle through his past, his prior affiliations, he has the wrong friends, supported the wrong cause, once, long ago, then he dies?

Kratman would give the state, the military, the power to do this, would set this precedent, would make a part of his national mythology, this abomination, this crime, that would draw every transgressive from the population toward positions of power like flies to rotten meat, in the hopes that he, too, would get the chance to perpetrate such acts?

What is wrong with him?

Even hypothetically, if you absolutely have to keep the violent criminals out of the national gene pool, then remove them from the general population. This doesn't even have to mean life in prison for the convicted: sex-segregated serfdom, banishment, even castration would be preferable to the mass-murdering, reign-of-terror reenactment that Kratman proposes.

(That this catastrophe he's contemplated committing doesn't gun for the ones really responsible for all the chaos - the banksters, the cronies, etc. shows how little he understands the current situation.)

Progs ought to be removed from power, and shamed. Their leaders must be punished, certainly. Yet mass-murder, like micromanagement and the other implements of the socialist toolkit, does not work to build a just society. Only a people with a strong commitment to a just culture can do that. And there would be nothing just about any culture founded in what Kratman is proposing.

Anonymous Stilicho July 03, 2014 12:47 PM  

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and nail a Guatemalan to it.

It's nice to see that Porky finally got over his hatred of the white man for conquering the Americas. One wonders how many invaders he will be housing in his wigwam and giving his firewater to...

Anonymous Real Talk July 03, 2014 12:50 PM  

And who decides how progressive one has to be, before he's marked for death, anyway?

Two solid metrics to measure progressiveness:

- Living off state funds.
- Miscegation

Anonymous map July 03, 2014 12:50 PM  

I don't know. How did the Bolshevik revolution succeed, when the Bolsheviks did not have the Tsars secret police or his armies or his media and other government institutions? Yet, they took over the Russia.

The new American civil war is not going to be like the The Civil War of 1860. There is not going to be a clearly defined battlefield. It will erupt spontaneously in a number of different places. The larger it gets, the harder it will be to control.

Anonymous Porphyry July 03, 2014 12:52 PM  

@Logo Yeah I don't know why Kratman is talking about murdering the common law criminals. What good would that do? The common law criminals are not going to organize to put your daughter over a fire, their sin was merely being selfish. But that just goes to show, as Markku said, this is all theoretical.

Anonymous it is sufficient July 03, 2014 12:56 PM  


@ Michael

Your lengthy response is appreciated.
There is no need to emphasize the Corps over the Coercive State, since it is the later that literally makes the monopoly of the former (in addition to uneducated and unconcerned citizens).
While your condescending tone is noted, I pointed out I was against killing. I would love to see treasonous actions punished by jailings for life, as well as by death. Certainly. You?

The RC certainly seems to be executing some super-secret-highly-clandestine-backdoor-affair-everlastingly-patient plan as it advocates for forced redistribution of wealth, while continuing to maintain it's slut whore tax status, eh?

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 03, 2014 12:56 PM  

The Ilk piling on Tom Kratman. Do the Pink SF/F know?

Blogger Bogey July 03, 2014 12:58 PM  

@ajw 308 That's hilarious. Tom's main character should have been more concerned about getting a disease then hurting her self esteem.

Blogger Bogey July 03, 2014 1:03 PM  

The Ilk piling on Tom Kratman. Do the Pink SF/F know?

Some of us don't have the stomach for genocide. If that makes me part of the problem, so be it.

Anonymous Follow the Money July 03, 2014 1:04 PM  

"Who would have predicted Russia would be the standard bearer for a free nationalist state 20 years ago?"

There is no nation that is a member of the IMF - as Russia is - that is not part of the problem.

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