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Monday, December 04, 2017

Mailvox: do not "correct" me

I so despise the sort of midwit who leaps upon every possible opportunity to "correct" someone in order to show off how smart he is, and in doing so, demonstrates his own ignorance. Add in a dash of smug passive-aggression if you want to maximize the annoyance factor. Here is a suggestion: if you think I've gotten something wrong, look it up. If the 14 years of this blog serve as a reliable guide, there is about a 98 percent chance you are wrong.
VD: We can only hope that he will treat them in much the same way Sulla treated his political opponents

valiance: The way *Marius* treated his political opponents, surely?

VD: No.
From Infogalactic: Sulla

At the end of 82 BC or the beginning of 81 BC, the Senate appointed Sulla dictator legibus faciendis et reipublicae constituendae causa ("dictator for the making of laws and for the settling of the constitution"). The "Assembly of the People" subsequently ratified the decision, with no limit set on his time in office. Sulla had total control of the city and republic of Rome, except for Hispania (which Marius's general Quintus Sertorius had established as an independent state). This unusual appointment (used hitherto only in times of extreme danger to the city, such as during the Second Punic War, and then only for 6-month periods) represented an exception to Rome's policy of not giving total power to a single individual. Sulla can be seen as setting the precedent for Julius Caesar's dictatorship, and for the eventual end of the Republic under Augustus.

In total control of the city and its affairs, Sulla instituted a series of proscriptions (a program of executing those whom he perceived as enemies of the state). Plutarch states in his "Life" of Sulla (XXXI): "Sulla now began to make blood flow, and he filled the city with deaths without number or limit", further alleging that many of the murdered victims had nothing to do with Sulla, though Sulla killed them to "please his adherents".

"Sulla immediately proscribed eighty persons without communicating with any magistrate. As this caused a general murmur, he let one day pass, and then proscribed two hundred and twenty more, and again on the third day as many. In an harangue to the people, he said, with reference to these measures, that he had proscribed all he could think of, and as to those who now escaped his memory, he would proscribe them at some future time." -Plutarch, Life of Sulla (XXXI)

The proscriptions are widely perceived as a response to similar killings which Marius and Cinna had implemented while they controlled the Republic during Sulla's absence. Proscribing or outlawing every one of those whom he perceived to have acted against the best interests of the Republic while he was in the East, Sulla ordered some 1,500 nobles (i.e., senators and equites) executed, although it is estimated that as many as 9,000 people were killed. The purge went on for several months. Helping or sheltering a proscribed person was punishable by death, while killing a proscribed person was rewarded with two talents. Family members of the proscribed were not excluded from punishment, and slaves were not excluded from rewards. As a result, "husbands were butchered in the arms of their wives, sons in the arms of their mothers". The majority of the proscribed had not been enemies of Sulla, but instead were killed for their property, which was confiscated and auctioned off. The proceeds from auctioned property more than made up for the cost of rewarding those who killed the proscribed, making Sulla even wealthier. Possibly to protect himself from future political retribution, Sulla had the sons and grandsons of the proscribed banned from running for political office, a restriction not removed for over 30 years.

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79 Comments:

Anonymous Brick Hardslab December 04, 2017 11:05 AM  

Do you think the Saudis are engaging in some fundraising/payback internally?

Blogger Gloriam Deo December 04, 2017 11:08 AM  

OT: is there a good alt right or Vox Day discord?

Blogger Noah B The Savage Gardener December 04, 2017 11:20 AM  

Bowtie garrotings FTW.

Blogger heyjames4 December 04, 2017 11:22 AM  

Reminds me of when Steven den Best quit his blog all those years ago. Thank you Vox for staying strong in spite of the anklebiters.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2017 11:40 AM  

> do not "correct" me

When it comes to other than modern history, I've learned to automatically assume you are correct. It helps in that regard that my historical literacy, while above average, is pathetic by any reasonable standards (yes, that means that the average is below pathetic), so I've had no grounds for disagreeing. But every time I've had reason to check, your position has been correct.

> ... is there a good alt right or Vox Day discord?

There's an Alt*Hero discord that might do, but I don't have the link handy. Check the Alt*Hero treads and you should find it.

Blogger The Kurgan December 04, 2017 11:42 AM  

Cretinus est pluribus

Blogger Volpack December 04, 2017 11:43 AM  

Just finished Rubicon by Tom Holland. I have been trying not to draw parallels just because it happens to be fresh on my mind.

Blogger Justin Bailey December 04, 2017 11:47 AM  

Re the discord question, discord bans any wrong political think. Such a thing isn’t possible.

https://www.polygon.com/2017/8/14/16145858/discord-alt-right-server-statement

Hate and Nazi of course meaning anyone or anything they disagree with. For better or worse, Gab is still the only one attempting to make any kind of open platform for chat and video (vid.me is gone). Given how Torba has chosen to represent himself and his company, I deleted my account awhile back and don’t recommend it unless you have nowhere else to go.

Blogger Nate December 04, 2017 11:53 AM  


"valiance: The way *Marius* treated his political opponents, surely?"

No.

And don't call me shirley.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Fine Purveyor of Quality Artisanal Gorm ) December 04, 2017 11:55 AM  

*disappointed at lack of "sugar tits"*

Anonymous patrick kelly December 04, 2017 11:59 AM  

"*disappointed at lack of "sugar tits"*"

I suspect Nate's blood level is dangerously high in his whiskey system.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 04, 2017 12:05 PM  

That could be an effective way to reduce government, and keep it reduced in the future.

Anonymous Inspector December 04, 2017 12:05 PM  

Heh. I actually looked up Sulla last night after he was mentioned in an article yesterday.

So, Sulla "cleaned out" his swamp and changed the political power system?

It's nice to know more about relevant history. Keep it up, Vox.

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 12:06 PM  

Re the discord question, discord bans any wrong political think. Such a thing isn’t possible.

Don't be ridiculous. We've got numerous Discord channels going. Don't be a jackass, don't attack anyone, don't talk about killing people, and you won't have any trouble. Discord is not like Twitter, trying to hunt down anyone to the right of Hillary Clinton.

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 12:07 PM  

From the article to which you linked, Justin:

According to Discord’s current terms of service and community guidelines, however, just admitting to being a Nazi or spreading racism isn’t enough of an offense to get someone banned.

Anonymous Jordy December 04, 2017 12:11 PM  

If anything Sulla directed his proscriptions onto people whose property he wanted or who someone he knew disliked. Marius killed his political opponents, and Marius did it first. Why would you chose the Sullan way?

Blogger Quilp December 04, 2017 12:21 PM  

"Sulla had the sons and grandsons of the proscribed banned from running for political office, a restriction not removed for over 30 years." We could still learn a thing or two from Rome.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2017 12:22 PM  

> Re the discord question, discord bans any wrong political think. Such a thing isn’t possible.

There are a plethora of open source text chat and voip applications, including servers, out there. I haven't looked at them in years so I can't say how well any of them work or scale though. One of the oldest text chat apps is IRC.

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 12:24 PM  

If anything Sulla directed his proscriptions onto people whose property he wanted or who someone he knew disliked. Marius killed his political opponents, and Marius did it first. Why would you chose the Sullan way?

What concern of it is yours? The only relevant point is that my statement was 100 percent correct, whereas Valiant's moronic "correction" was nothing of the sort.

Blogger tz December 04, 2017 12:35 PM  

OT but Feminists don't want to discuss code at women who code and even attack those who do

Blogger pyrrhus December 04, 2017 12:36 PM  

Confusing Sulla with Marius? Brain dead...

Anonymous DeplorableCodeMonkey December 04, 2017 12:40 PM  

trying to hunt down anyone to the right of Hillary Clinton

If Hitlery were an ordinary woman, even she would be too far to the right for Twitter these days.

Anonymous Jordy December 04, 2017 12:42 PM  

Vox,

I was curious if you chose Sulla because you were a fan. He is one of my favorite Romans, but I'm not sure I would have followed in his footsteps in that regards.

Of course you were correct, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 12:53 PM  

I wouldn't say "fan" per se, but I definitely preferred him to Marius, who was responsible for breaking the Roman system.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2017 1:12 PM  

> "Sulla had the sons and grandsons of the proscribed banned from running for political office, a restriction not removed for over 30 years."

Given California's sanctuary state status, Trump could declare them in rebellion and revoke their right to vote for the remainder of their lifetimes. There is precedent.

Anonymous John December 04, 2017 1:16 PM  

"Why should he? He is the champion of the people, the vox populi, and he is standing up for them against the modern-day, self-appointed Optimates. We can only hope that he will treat them in much the same way Sulla treated his political opponents."

The comment is confusing because Sulla was an Optimate.

Blogger Danby December 04, 2017 1:31 PM  

Marius killed his political opponents, and Marius did it first. Why would you chose the Sullan way?
Sulla was successful ad defeating his enemies permanently, Marius was not.

Anonymous Jordy December 04, 2017 1:38 PM  

Vox,

I agree on Marius. His military reforms might have helped in defeating the Cimbri, Teutones, and other Germannic tribes, but they ruined the Republic. Although I also blame the perversion of the tribunate under men like the Gracchi and Saturninus.

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 1:46 PM  

The comment is confusing because Sulla was an Optimate.

Yes, I have no doubt that the 0.01 percent of the population who know that will be entirely and absolutely confused, because everyone knows that Sulla treated his political opponents kindly.

It's not an analogy.

Blogger tuberman December 04, 2017 2:02 PM  

I used to have a thing with the development of Roman Law, and some other interesting things about Rome, including military information, but never fully went full-force into the complete history, a regret.

Anonymous Cadwallander J December 04, 2017 2:03 PM  

Guy should have read Throne of Bones before commenting. I'm pretty sure someone who can spend a chapter accurately describing the layout of a Roman bath using the appropriate Latin terminology has done sufficient research on Roman culture to receive the benefit of a doubt.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents December 04, 2017 2:20 PM  

What a terrible shame it is in Current Year that so many people are deprived of a working search engine. Perhaps we should create a charity dedicated to bringing DuckDuckGo to these impoverished individuals?

The Human Search Engine Campaign. Give, so that others can learn.

Blogger valiance. December 04, 2017 2:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger valiance. December 04, 2017 2:42 PM  

Wow, did not expect all this. Of course I knew about Sulla's proscriptions. I only meant I was surprised you picked Sulla, an optimate for your example and not Marius the populare, given Trump"s populist stances.

Did not intend as a correction at all- would never try to go at you over Roman history of all things. Not intending to offend.

Anonymous CarpeOro December 04, 2017 2:43 PM  

@29 (VD)

As part of the .01% that know what an Optimate is (recalling from conversational context tweaking those memories admittedly), I didn't find your comment particularly hard to understand. Reading and understanding of context Trumps (as it were), simple memorization of raw data. I'll take someone who can grok the context over someone who has access to all related data but is unable to do anything useful with it.

Anonymous JAMES December 04, 2017 2:50 PM  

Exactly. I noticed the same thing.

VD has a superb knowledge of late Republican Roman history so I assumed he knew what he was getting at, but the comment he made did stick out to me as well.

Trump is supposedly a populist just like Marius was, Sulla was seen as the bulwark of the old order.

VD is a touchy man, but I guess it is his blog to be touchy on.

Blogger valiance. December 04, 2017 2:55 PM  

I'll add here I initially didn't think what I wrote came off as a correction but rereading it I can see that it looks that way. Since everyone else seems to have read it that way it's a failure of communication on my part. Mea culpa.

Blogger VFM #7634 December 04, 2017 3:27 PM  

"We can only hope that he will treat them in much the same way Sulla treated his political opponents"

Rodrigo Duterte has been going Sulla on the drug dealers, and Trump appears to approve. And maybe the Saudi prince should do likewise with the folks under house arrest in that swanky hotel.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr December 04, 2017 3:48 PM  

Some people want to play the "gotcha" correction game because they want to raise their perceived rank. Unfortunately, that sort of thing usually comes off as nit-picking.

If you really want to build your reputation, try adding something substantial to the conversation.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr December 04, 2017 3:52 PM  

@25 James Dixon:

You're thinking along the same lines as I am...that we had the discussion about subordination to Federal authority between 1861 and 1865. But there are several states, and in particular several cities, that need a reminder.

The question being how much force should be used to impart the lesson.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2017 3:58 PM  

> The question being how much force should be used to impart the lesson.

Is there a Sherman around when you need one?

Blogger Danby December 04, 2017 4:19 PM  

JAMES wrote:VD is a touchy man, but I guess it is his blog to be touchy on.
Touchy is the wrong word. He puts up patiently with far more bullshit than I ever would. But he does have specific triggers, and challenging his knowledge on the basis of statements he very consciously and specifically crafted and knows he is 100% correct on is one of them.

Blogger Elder Son December 04, 2017 4:21 PM  

Of course, the proscribed didn't end there.

If Sulla could, why can't I?

Blogger David Power December 04, 2017 4:23 PM  

All this petty tetchieness is most unbecoming.


A man is only as big as what makes him angry.

Blogger Danby December 04, 2017 4:37 PM  

David Power wrote:A man is only as big as what makes him angry.
Assertion of the observably false.

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 5:09 PM  

Trump is supposedly a populist just like Marius was, Sulla was seen as the bulwark of the old order.

What is the old order in America?

VD is a touchy man, but I guess it is his blog to be touchy on.

If you experienced even one-tenth of the bullshit directed me on a daily basis for a week, you'd be frothing at the mouth. And I've put up with it for 16 years. I am the exact opposite of "touchy".

I simply decided to stop tolerating gamma bullshit at all. The blog is an observably better place without their constant posturing and passive-aggression.

All this petty tetchieness is most unbecoming.

Speaking of gamma. Go strangle yourself with your stupid bow tie.

Blogger Unknown December 04, 2017 5:10 PM  

Oh I have that problem VD on this: https://forum.egosoft.com/viewforum.php?f=8

More specifically the Trump thread

You try arguing with some people and you are a Neo nazi KKK loving violent extremist.

I really am done arguing with leftists.
They project to the point of ridiculous.

Anonymous Tanjil Bren December 04, 2017 5:47 PM  

"Sulla was seen as the bulwark of the old order."

I thought the reference to Sulla was immediately self-explanatory (and an exciting idea when applied to the GE, and may the Potomac end up brimming with the proscriptio).

Overthinking it, perhaps?

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 5:56 PM  

Vox isn't always right. That bird-dinosaur hand-digits thing he talked about a while back had been resolve in 2007. Birds didn't do a phase-shift on HOX digits. Even if they had, that still doesn't exclude the 400+ characters birds share with Dinosauria to the exclusion of all other life.

Anonymous Tanjil Bren December 04, 2017 6:06 PM  

(And a poor moment to be 'fessing to having a bow tie collection, I guess?)

Blogger Elder Son December 04, 2017 6:14 PM  

...may the Potomac end up brimming with the proscriptio.

Actually, Trumpsulla will one day retire to his Villa in the countryside with his wife and male lover. And for all the good he did, or didn't do, the Potomac will remain the same. Poor Cicero.

It's all entertaining, as long as you are not the one being proscibed.

Blogger David Power December 04, 2017 6:23 PM  

The old Greek letter gambit never gets old.

And btw, it's not a bow tie, it's a cravat.

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 6:24 PM  

And I don't say that to be a bitch, evolution is true, the dinosaur-bird example is the most amazing one because unlike insects, pterosaurs and bats, flight was very difficult and had a lot of side-branches. Insects developed flight almost instantly, because they did not use any limbs. Pterosaurs and bats used both sets of limbs rapidly and any cousins were replaced with better-adapted critters.

Birds are _weird_ among vertebrates. They use feathers on forelimbs. Their hind-limbs, like insect six legs, were free. That's why bird and insect fossils have lots of flightless examples, but bats and pterosaurs have none.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 04, 2017 6:25 PM  

@44 David Power
A man is only as big as what makes him angry.

Your ideas are intriguing! Please add me to your listserve immediately and subscribe me to your advice service!

Blogger VD December 04, 2017 6:42 PM  

The old Greek letter gambit never gets old.

How could it? The world keeps producing gammas. Some of them will eventually find their way here and do what gammas do.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 04, 2017 6:50 PM  

Supreme Court allows full enforcement for now of Trump travel ban

Not a full win yet.

The Supreme Court on Monday allowed the Trump administration to fully enforce a ban on travel to the United States by residents of six mostly Muslim countries.

This is not a final ruling on the travel ban: Challenges to the policy are winding through the federal courts, and the justices themselves ultimately are expected to rule on its legality.

But the action indicates that the high court might eventually approve the latest version of the ban, announced by President Donald Trump in September. Lower courts have continued to find problems with the policy.


Now, moar wall!

Anonymous Wooly December 04, 2017 6:56 PM  

Sometimes it's hard to say whether this blog and comment section is entertainment or education.

A few military officers were, in the company of an enlisted dude just getting them their coffee, pondering whether sex with their wife was work -- or pleasure. After much disagreement among the officers, they asked the enlisted dude, "Is sex with my wife work, or pleasure?"

The enlistee said, "It has to be pleasure. If it were work, you'd all be making me do it."

---

I am enriched by these posts and threads, daily.

People say I think too much. Wonder why. People who are going home to watch lots and lots of TV before bed, and who will wake up in the morning to do the same before going to work, between bouts of Facebook-checking. Thanks, Vox, and thanks, Ilk.

I hope when Google finally deletes this blog, that I'll be intelligent enough to find "the mattresses".

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 04, 2017 6:58 PM  

OT
Women getting banned from Faceberg for posting "Men are scum".

https://www.thedailybeast.com/women-are-getting-banned-from-facebook-for-calling-men-scum

"Make them live up to their own rules".

Blogger exfarmkid December 04, 2017 7:05 PM  

48. "Vox isn't always right."

Well, duh. And it clearly doesn't bother him to make the occasional public mistake either and be corrected with the real facts. All the poor bastard is asking for is that commenters take two minutes to verify and validate a datum before throwing it in his face.

You know, courtesy.

Anonymous Wooly December 04, 2017 7:19 PM  

@57

Yup. I've seen Vox admit error.

Much more intelligent than I am. I know people much less intelligent than I am who will never admit error, or any amount of ignorance on any subject.

People who would argue with a life-long construction worker who don't know what a tape measure is. Or a hammer, and it's relationship with a nail. The basics.

I'm not stupid enough to argue with people who are stupid (and ignorant) enough to attempt to argue with me about, say Islam or the Bible.

If you cannot sufficiently define eight of ten Islamic words I give you on a slip of paper, then you are not tall enough for this ride, and I decline and change the subject. I don't argue with electricians. I don't know squat about electricity. I'd be stupid to do so, and he'd be stupid to argue with me.

Blogger James Dixon December 04, 2017 7:23 PM  

> Sometimes it's hard to say whether this blog and comment section is entertainment or education.

Why can't it be both?

Anonymous Takin' A Look. December 04, 2017 7:33 PM  

Yes, people err, I have a lay-man's fascination with paleontology and read all the latest stuff, like this guy.

http://antediluviansalad.blogspot.com/2017/10/entering-nth-dimension-of-terra-forming.html?m=1

Basically, that animals or plants or biocrusts of the past were NOT doing the same thing as modern ecosystems.

One need only to see this illustration and read the caption to understand that ecosystems can change massively.

https://gogosardina.deviantart.com/art/TSoSC-3-The-floating-lily-fields-of-Guanling-380518689

Before shipworms evolved, driftwood used to remain out at sea for centuries, millennia and be platforms for an abundance of plant and animal life.

Anonymous Wooly December 04, 2017 7:34 PM  

It is. Sure beats TV in both regards.

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 7:49 PM  

@exfarmkid

"correcting" is not the same as some bloviating gamma or whatever smv crowing. Just don't touch my dinosaurs and try to pretend you can finangle bumblebees out of them. Or the same with the mammals of the Carboniferous and Permian.

Blogger exfarmkid December 04, 2017 7:58 PM  

@Takin' A Look

What you just said has nothing to do with my comment.

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 8:03 PM  

@Wooly

What are you even on about? Islamics need to be expelled; along with Talmudic Jews. We can assimilate and subjugate the rest, but those two MUST be expelled and cut off from us.

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 8:12 PM  

@exfarmkid



What you just said has nothing to do with my comment

Uh....how? Because it is wasn't specific enough? Or too specific?

You and Wooly are very Boomer style new age folks. No offense, I just don't like dealing with you Boomer brats.

Blogger exfarmkid December 04, 2017 8:29 PM  

@Takin'A Look

You are obsessing over a specific when a general principle was being pointed out. It doesn't mean you are wrong, it means your comment is irrelevant.

"You and Wooly are very Boomer style new age folks. No offense, I just don't like dealing with you Boomer brats."

Now you are writing as would a child.

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 9:03 PM  

No.....

You don't understand in anyways do you? Idiot, just go into your underground chamber while we hajnali deal with shit.

Anyways, you're basically a child who thinks I give a shit about emotional manipulation, I don't, I feel guilt, not shame. Learn the difference sub-human.

Blogger exfarmkid December 04, 2017 9:16 PM  

You poor bastard.

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 9:19 PM  

Good like me are reading this shit and remembering why Christ whipped the moneychangers, talked of mill-stones and spat out the vinegar waters, (((you))) chose the Princes of this world.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/bryan-singer-fired-directing-queen-biopic-set-chaos-1063977

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 04, 2017 9:23 PM  

A bastard is far better than a blind idiot.

*i know many such bastards, bigly!

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents December 04, 2017 9:56 PM  

@70 Takin' A Look

Oh, Singer's just decided he needs to spend more time with the kids.

Anonymous Takin' A Look. December 04, 2017 10:34 PM  

"Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents"

Yep, and the rest of Kikes and Shabbos Goyium are desperately worm-tonguing.

https://forward.com/life/faith/380684/stop-using-the-word-goy-youre-empowering-white-supremacists/

Anonymous Takin' A Look December 05, 2017 12:33 AM  

Yeah Vox tends to do a lot of bloviating and such. But he does have the ability to hawk-eye when necessary. You kikes are gonna get ovened. Smdh, you brought this on yourself.... Smdh.

https://youtu.be/bsdZQub7QVE

Anonymous Jane December 05, 2017 7:46 AM  

Sulla, free-lance communist.

Blogger tuberman December 05, 2017 8:59 AM  

Anyway, Sulla, or to Sulla the Satanic Globalists is a worthwhile thought.

Blogger dtungsten December 05, 2017 7:45 PM  

I think you've just convinced me that he *is* always right.

Blogger dtungsten December 05, 2017 7:51 PM  

@Wooly
Sometimes it's hard to say whether this blog and comment section is entertainment or education.

It's both.

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