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Wednesday, December 06, 2017

O Jerusalem

Once again, the God-Emperor delivers where his predecessors, both Republican and Democrat, were nothing but talk:
In a momentous shift of United States foreign policy in the Middle East, President Donald Trump is set to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel on Wednesday and initiate the process of relocating the U.S. embassy to the city from Tel Aviv, according to senior administration officials. The president is expected to officially announce the policy changes in remarks at the White House at 1pm on Wednesday.
That's great news. Jerusalem is the capital of the nation of Israel and pretending otherwise is absurd and insulting. Those who are always saying "next year in Jerusalem" no longer have any excuse for not putting their feet where their mouths are.

Now let's see the God-Emperor keep his word in two areas of considerably more import to Americans, namely, BUILDING THE WALL and DRAINING THE SWAMP.

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335 Comments:

1 – 200 of 335 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Harris December 06, 2017 8:19 AM  

For those impatient about the building of the wall, I've managed large construction projects for almost 30 years. My current job is as a Mechanical Engineer for a University with 40,000 students and a large research related faculty. 16 months ago, I started the process of renovation for our Engineering college. I just now finally got the MEP designed under contract, and the design itself will take until next year this time. I expect construction to begin in January, 2019.

So, for a government project considerably smaller than the Wall, it is taking about 2-1/2 years to go through the design and bid process...before Construction begins. It will take 12-18 months to complete the work, mostly because the renovation must take place while the building is still occupied.

My point is that just because you don't see the Wall being built right now is not evidence that Trump has done nothing. He has commissioned several samples of Wall, all of which have been built. There is now a selection process, and a design process to go through. Because of government red tape, and laws concerning how contracts can be let, it takes time to get to the point of the actual start of construction. And that is WITHOUT political opposition.

I want the Wall as much as anyone. But it is helpful to understand that it takes time to get something going. That's why we need Trump for 8 years, not 4 years. So the job can be completed.

Blogger Harris December 06, 2017 8:21 AM  

Also, kudos to Trump for moving the embassy to Jerusalem, which anyone with any knowledge of history knows is the true capital of Israel. It's nice to get a little honesty injected into the political world with a truth talker like Trump.

Blogger Phat Repat December 06, 2017 8:30 AM  

If there was ever a time for the Middle East to burst into chaos beyond what currently is; this is it. Things must be really bad on the financial front, might have to move my timeline up a bit.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 06, 2017 8:31 AM  

It does functionally nothing, but Trump isn't about playing stupid games. Plus, he has little reason to listen to the unimportant and the whiners.

Also, it's just fun to watch SJW heads explode.

Blogger Sherwood family December 06, 2017 8:33 AM  

I hope our Jewish friends, neighbors, colleagues, and relatives can now make aliyah like they've always dreamed and Make Israel Great Again. And the rest of us can do the same for our nation.

Blogger J johnson December 06, 2017 8:34 AM  

Harris
thank you for the reminder of time.
it is the reminder of a class of men in slow motion. there was a time in the US of A when things and our efforts would rush forward into reality,
Asian boat builders and other constructors move / build fast, while we wring our hands with paper and ink.
I,m just cranky. build the wall and deport the colonistas


Blogger Aeoli Pera December 06, 2017 8:37 AM  

Harris wrote:I want the Wall as much as anyone. But it is helpful to understand that it takes time to get something going. That's why we need Trump for 8 years, not 4 years. So the job can be completed.

If Trump says "everybody take one brick down to the border and put it on a different brick" the Wall will be finished by tomorrow evening.

Forget prototyping, just copy Israel's. The irony would explode some heads what need exploding.

Blogger ReluctantMessiah December 06, 2017 8:37 AM  

Harris, my friend is a Civil Engineer. He can also confirm just how long it takes before building can even begin. Everything must follow code. Regulations must be followed. Etc.

And we don't need to tell Trump this. He knows how long things can take to build. A lot of his buildings are nearly decade long projects.

Blogger APL December 06, 2017 8:40 AM  

"Those who are always saying "next year in Jerusalem" no longer have any excuse for not putting their feet where their mouths are."

lol worthy.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 8:41 AM  

Next the temple will be rebuilt. Things are falling into place. Who knew Donald Trump would play such a consequential role in world history.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 8:44 AM  

But Trump doesnt have decades, he has three to seven years to build the wall, the next democrat or neocon to get in office will stop it.

Anonymous The Watcher of the Skies December 06, 2017 8:46 AM  

The God-Emperor continues to deliver and impress.

Now let's see if Bush, Obama, Merkel, et al were right about Islam being 'a religion of peace'...

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 06, 2017 8:49 AM  

Trump unlike a conservative knows how to pit the left's groups at one another when he gets a chance. This is an easy choice.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 8:50 AM  

Howard Stone wrote:Next the temple will be rebuilt. Things are falling into place. Who knew Donald Trump would play such a consequential role in world history.

The temple will never be rebuilt since God himself tore the curtain that made it significant and his Son prophesied its full destruction. There is no need for the temple since the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross and going back is denying that reality and a form of heresy.

Anonymous Magna Carta December 06, 2017 8:52 AM  

I'm good with that as long as Trump moves the US embassy out from Ellis Island where its been for 52 years.

Blogger Desdichado December 06, 2017 8:52 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:
If Trump says "everybody take one brick down to the border and put it on a different brick" the Wall will be finished by tomorrow evening.

Forget prototyping, just copy Israel's. The irony would explode some heads what need exploding.

Everyone take one immigrant skull down to the border and put it on another immigrant skull.

Anyway, I think the concern over where we recognize Israel's capital to be is a rather empty concern in most respects except for one thing: it signals the Mussulman world that we're not going to fail their shit test this time. Next step: signal to the Hebes that we don't care what they do in their country; leave us alone already.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 06, 2017 8:52 AM  

Slightly off topic, those who supported ISIS must hang.

Anonymous The Other Donald December 06, 2017 8:54 AM  

"putting their feet where their mouths are"
I hope they like the taste of their toes.

Blogger Salt December 06, 2017 8:58 AM  

William Meisheid wrote:There is no need for the temple since the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross and going back is denying that reality and a form of heresy.

"the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross"? Not according to the Jews who shall be the ones to rebuild the Temple.

Blogger Thomas Henderson December 06, 2017 8:59 AM  

Symbolically, the date is auspicious. Today is St. Nicolas Day, 6th December. New Yorkers call St. Nicholas, Santa Claus. Trump is playing Claus to Netanyahu.

Furthermore, St. Nicholas, before the doctrine of niceness took hold among the faithful, was known for his actions at the Council of Nicea - the church council that gave Christendom the Nicene Creed. Nicholas was so agitated by Arius, who queried whether Christ was mere creature and not Godhead, that he went over and physically assaulted his fellow cleric - slapped him across the face.

He stood up for orthodoxy against the heresies of his time.

There are echoes of the slap in Trump's actions.

Blogger Sherwood family December 06, 2017 9:00 AM  

Now that the Jewish people can finally return to their homeland en mass, the U.S. can step back from its protective role and let them have the freedom to manage their own affairs without Washington's interference. And since Jews are, according to Forbes, 11% of the world's billionaires, they will finally be able to fund all needed defenses and improvements that Eretz Isroel needs for its future development. Especially since there will be no need to spend their money on elections and political campaigns in countries where they no longer reside.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 9:03 AM  

@William Meisheid, according to a prevalent interpretation of 2nd Thesolonians chapter 2, antichrist will be worshipped in the Temple. So, one would infer from that interpretation that the Temple will be rebuilt at some point, and Jerusalem being recognized by the world community as the capitol of Israel sets the stage for that to happen.

Blogger Amy December 06, 2017 9:05 AM  

From the Reuters article on the matter:

In defending the decision, the officials said Trump was basically reflecting a fundamental truth: that Jerusalem is the seat of the Israeli government and should be recognized as such.

"The president believes this is a recognition of reality," said one official, who briefed reporters on Tuesday about the announcement. "We’re going forward on the basis of a truth that is undeniable. It’s just a fact."


Recognizing the existence of reality, huh? I like it.

So, for decades this tenuous “peace” and the two state solution and appeasing Palestine hasn’t gotten anyone anywhere. I’m reminded of the meaning of insanity and repetition and results. Maybe time for something completely different?

Blogger J johnson December 06, 2017 9:14 AM  

Aeoli Pera wrote:Harris wrote:I want the Wall as much as anyone. But it is helpful to understand that it takes time to get something going. That's why we need Trump for 8 years, not 4 years. So the job can be completed.

If Trump says "everybody take one brick down to the border and put it on a different brick" the Wall will be finished by tomorrow evening.

Forget prototyping, just copy Israel's. The irony would explode some heads what need exploding.


great idea, better yet allow people to sponsor the bricks for 50$ each and it will pay for itself, I also like the immigrant skull comment, and sponsoring that would also work, thanks cheers

Blogger Mr.MantraMan December 06, 2017 9:17 AM  

From what I know if I were a Christian or muslim under Israeli occupation and without citizenship I would surrender to try and attain even its second rate citizenship. Palestinian rule has to be one of the cosmos' most cruel fates, they have had decades to work on a public image and the best they come up with is strapping a bomb on a child.

Blogger McChuck December 06, 2017 9:19 AM  

@1 - Chain link fencing is a mature technology. So is concertina wire. It's the OSHA/ADA compliant guard towers holding things up. Well, that and restarting the land mine factories.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 9:22 AM  

We have some excellent prototypes for The Wall. As I said on twitter... build the wall today of concrete and steel... or built it later out of invaders.

Blogger darkdoc December 06, 2017 9:22 AM  

@14 Yep, you are right.

There is no Jewish sacrificial system, no priesthood, no Holy of Holies possible. And the abomination in the temple? Happened in 70 AD.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 9:24 AM  

Also... screw Palastine. Its a Fake Nation made up of a people who's only common attribute is being rejected by every other nation in the middle east.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 9:26 AM  

"The temple will never be rebuilt since God himself tore the curtain that made it significant and his Son prophesied its full destruction."

Them-what will be rebuilding it don't see it that way. they very much are prepared to rebuild it. They are just waiting for the sign... and when they have the sign... they will rebuild it.

i personally hope I live to see it... just because as Markku pointed out once... it will be one of the great WTF moments of history.

Blogger Conor Foran December 06, 2017 9:40 AM  

@Nate Hoping that you see with your own eyes the End of Days is perhaps not the smartest wish in the world. And as much as we ought to and do pray, "Thy kingdom come," we ought equally to fear what lies between now and the time when all flesh shall see Him together, and behold Him whom they have pierced, and mourn for Him as a firstborn son.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 9:48 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 9:51 AM  

William Meisheid wrote:Howard Stone wrote:Next the temple will be rebuilt. Things are falling into place. Who knew Donald Trump would play such a consequential role in world history.

The temple will never be rebuilt since God himself tore the curtain that made it significant and his Son prophesied its full destruction. There is no need for the temple since the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross and going back is denying that reality and a form of heresy.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'll take Bible Illiteracy for $100, Alex.

Blogger Desdichado December 06, 2017 9:57 AM  

Conor Foran wrote:@Nate Hoping that you see with your own eyes the End of Days is perhaps not the smartest wish in the world. And as much as we ought to and do pray, "Thy kingdom come," we ought equally to fear what lies between now and the time when all flesh shall see Him together, and behold Him whom they have pierced, and mourn for Him as a firstborn son.
So you'd rather die in peace and leave your children or grandchildren to suffer through it after you've already gone on?

Nice.

Blogger JohnofAustria December 06, 2017 10:01 AM  

My gripe is that Jerusalem does not belong to the Pharisees, but to the Israel of God, the Christian church.

Blogger JohnofAustria December 06, 2017 10:04 AM  

Also the ungrateful tenants have been pressuring the Orthodox Church (who is one of the biggest landowners in the Holy Land, for obvious reasons) to sell their properties. To clear the goyim off "their" land.

Blogger David Power December 06, 2017 10:06 AM  

O.T. I guess, but...

Do you remember the BBC documentary/hit-piece on Roosh, hosted by the particularly smarmy black bbc presenter Reggie Yates, sub-titled; "Reggie meets the angry young British men who think feminism has gone too far", that aired a couple of years back"?

Well it seems young Reggie may have been harbouring some latent anger issues of his own, after making a 'controversial' comment on his radio show about "fat Jewish" managers in the music industry.

"“They (young black artists) are independent, they’re not managed by some random fat Jewish guy from north west London, they’re managed by their brethren.”

Of course he's now made a full and grovelling apology... but not without losing his coverted spot presenting the BBC's Christmas music special.

Yates: "It's been a huge learning experience". LOL



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/04/reggie-yates-leaves-top-pops-ill-considered-comments-fat-jewish/

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 10:07 AM  

"@Nate Hoping that you see with your own eyes the End of Days is perhaps not the smartest wish in the world"

***chuckle***

A few points to make here... God's Time table is not dependent on real estate activities and construction projects of man. No matter how much Hollywood wishes it could... there is no action man can take that trigger the events of Revelation. Also...

There is no such thing as The End of Days. You're reading the Book wrong.

Revelation is not the story of the End of the World.

It is the story of the beginning of the New One.

Anonymous Texas exile December 06, 2017 10:12 AM  

"""

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
"""
Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Anonymous Turn December 06, 2017 10:14 AM  

@VD
I couldn't care less about the matter, but there's a good song about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhxJfV3mGd0

@Rabbi B
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I didn't read your feud with the other guy(s), but I recognize this laughter and, unless it's a gigantic coincidence, there's an insufferable shill on the Chans that uses it as well.
Good to know it's literally a fully fledged Jew, a D&C Rabbi.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 10:19 AM  

" but I recognize this laughter and, unless it's a gigantic coincidence,"

that's not a gigantic coincidence. There are literally millions of people that use that expression. I've used it here.

Blogger Phelps December 06, 2017 10:19 AM  

The people who are losing their shit today are the same morons who were losing their shit in 1946 when Truman recognized Israel in the first place, and it will have the same results.

Blogger Phelps December 06, 2017 10:20 AM  

1948

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:23 AM  

according to a prevalent interpretation of 2nd Thesolonians chapter 2, antichrist will be worshipped in the Temple. So, one would infer from that interpretation that the Temple will be rebuilt at some point, and Jerusalem being recognized by the world community as the capitol of Israel sets the stage for that to happen.

You only have to ignore the Bible in about 10 places to arrive at that "prevalent interpretation". God will not be worshipped in a temple made with man's hands. Don't you know you are the temple? And that we are living stones?

The blood of ALL of the prophets is found in Jerusalem and Jesus Christ told us that it is not fitting that a prophet should die OUTSIDE of Jerusalem. Later in Revelation we are to that that "Great City" that we will rejoice at it's utter destruction is full of the blood of all the Saints.

Dispensationalism is for cucks and the wilfully ignorant. Jerusalem is setting the stage, it's setting it for when the two witnesses, the remnant of the Church are going to be killed in it's streets (maybe metaphorically) per Revelation 11.

Propaganda usually is prevalent.

Blogger bobby December 06, 2017 10:24 AM  

"In a momentous shift of United States foreign policy in the Middle East, President Donald Trump is set to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel . . . "

Wasn't the actual momentous shift back in June, when the Senate voted 90-0 - 90-0! - to direct Trump to do this very thing?

I get a kick out of the MSM now presenting this as Trump's stupid evil decision to start war.

Anonymous Slen December 06, 2017 10:24 AM  

Forgive the OT, But this happens one minute after a Trump MAGA tweet... The Storm??

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/multi-agency-law-enforcement-activity-reported-in-dc-area

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:25 AM  

That said, Trump is again exposing the insanity of his enemies by provoking with ridiculous ease.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 10:26 AM  

"the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross"? Not according to the Jews who shall be the ones to rebuild the Temple.

Only the Jews who rejected their Messiah would consider doing this. Remember that all the first Christians where Jews and on Paul's missionary journeys he when to Synagogues to preach about Jesus Christ.

@William Meisheid, according to a prevalent interpretation of 2nd Thesolonians chapter 2, antichrist will be worshipped in the Temple. So, one would infer from that interpretation that the Temple will be rebuilt at some point.

Since the change initiated at the cross man himself is the the true temple of God (re: 1 Cor 6:14) so that worship doesn't have to be in an external temple building to be a valid fulfillment. God's only temple now is you. Any temple that Jews build now will NOT be God's temple.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 10:26 AM  

JohnofAustria wrote:My gripe is that Jerusalem does not belong to the Pharisees, but to the Israel of God, the Christian church.

(((FACEPALM)))

Blogger Conor Foran December 06, 2017 10:28 AM  

@Desichado No. I leave it in God's hands. I merely pray in my weakness that I may not be put to the test, but, above all, His will be done.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 10:28 AM  

Rabbi B wrote:William Meisheid wrote:Howard Stone wrote:Next the temple will be rebuilt. Things are falling into place. Who knew Donald Trump would play such a consequential role in world history.

The temple will never be rebuilt since God himself tore the curtain that made it significant and his Son prophesied its full destruction. There is no need for the temple since the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross and going back is denying that reality and a form of heresy.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'll take Bible Illiteracy for $100, Alex.


And you get the award. See 1 Cor 6:19.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 10:28 AM  

God's only temple now is you. Any temple that Jews build now will NOT be God's temple.

You're out of your depth here and the prophet Ezekiel, just to name one, disagrees with you. Your argument is invalid.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 06, 2017 10:29 AM  

Frankly, if the End of the World is going to start, I'm buying a round for everyone. It'll be terrible until the Rapture, but at least you know you're in for a Hell of a show.

Related to "And Trump has no chill", it's pretty clear now that he retweeted those "Muslims doing evil things" videos because the Intel report had the prevented assassination attempt on PM May of the UK. Now it's a question if Trump was helping her or forcing a position, or some combination of both.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 10:30 AM  

Since the change initiated at the cross man himself is the the true temple of God (re: 1 Cor 6:14) ... should have said 1 Cor. 6:19 sorry.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:34 AM  

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'll take Bible Illiteracy for $100, Alex.


"That's a double Jeopardy".

"I'll risk $2000"

"The most ignored Chapter in the Bible by dispensationalists."

"What is Galatians 4?"

""That's it. Congratulations".

Blogger Desdichado December 06, 2017 10:35 AM  

Conor Foran wrote:@Desichado No. I leave it in God's hands. I merely pray in my weakness that I may not be put to the test, but, above all, His will be done.
Yes, it will. That said; I hope it happens to me and NOT to my posterity. I'd rather take it myself and spare them.

(Or am I mixing the comments from two separate posts here?)

Blogger Silly but True December 06, 2017 10:35 AM  

Let me first say I would probably feel bad if this were to occur.

But I can imagine a situation where Trump declares Jerusalem the capital of Israel on 12/12 inciting rage throughout Muslim world, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco rules by 12/15 that Trump's Sept. Travel Ban cannot be enforced, and the weeks of 12/23 and Christmas are filled with terrorists flocking to US through California to run a train of attacks on soft targets throughout the US, including no less than four 12/24 mall mass attacks; excepting Mall of America which has become a terrorist stronghold.

Would that finally be point where people storm the 9th Circuit and recreate Golgotha as part of Christmas miracle festivities?

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:36 AM  

This is also all covered in the book of Hebrews. Our Temple and our High Priest are superior in every way. The author clearly knew how to address the book.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass December 06, 2017 10:37 AM  

"That's great news. Jerusalem is the capital of the nation of Israel and pretending otherwise is absurd and insulting. Those who are always saying "next year in Jerusalem" no longer have any excuse for not putting their feet where their mouths are.

Now let's see the God-Emperor keep his word in two areas of considerably more import to Americans, namely, BUILDING THE WALL and DRAINING THE SWAMP."

But but but muh every six months, virtue signaling, and re-election campaign!

Bawhahahahahhahaha. For those that have read State of Fear by Michael Chriton, you'll remember the end where one of the characters talks about getting things done and then disbanding the organization before it becomes part of the establishment. It's as if...nearly all the Republicans are part of the establishment. / sarc

Harris wrote:For those impatient about the building of the wall, I've managed large construction projects for almost 30 years. My current job is as a Mechanical Engineer for a University with 40,000 students and a large research related faculty. 16 months ago, I started the process of renovation for our Engineering college. I just now finally got the MEP designed under contract, and the design itself will take until next year this time. I expect construction to begin in January, 2019.

So, for a government project considerably smaller than the Wall, it is taking about 2-1/2 years to go through the design and bid process...before Construction begins. It will take 12-18 months to complete the work, mostly because the renovation must take place while the building is still occupied.

My point is that just because you don't see the Wall being built right now is not evidence that Trump has done nothing. He has commissioned several samples of Wall, all of which have been built. There is now a selection process, and a design process to go through. Because of government red tape, and laws concerning how contracts can be let, it takes time to get to the point of the actual start of construction. And that is WITHOUT political opposition.

I want the Wall as much as anyone. But it is helpful to understand that it takes time to get something going. That's why we need Trump for 8 years, not 4 years. So the job can be completed.


What's it like in the private sector? Is the timetable any quicker?

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky December 06, 2017 10:38 AM  

What do the Muslims expect? After the behavior of the Muslims of this past generation, here's what they deserve: a backhand. To be tossed out of civilized countries, and all their entreaties completely ignored. That's what Islam deserves, that's the place it has earned on the world stage.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 10:38 AM  

Rabbi B wrote:God's only temple now is you. Any temple that Jews build now will NOT be God's temple.

You're out of your depth here and the prophet Ezekiel, just to name one, disagrees with you. Your argument is invalid.


We can agree to disagree but I am not out of my depth by any stretch of your imagination. Since Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and the prophets, since the veil was rent by God himself, FOREVER breaking the most important aspect of the temple's purpose--the separation and controlled access to the Holy of Holies and God's presence--and since the physical temple was destroyed in that generation because the sacrificial aspect was no longer valid, Christ paid the debt of all, you do the math.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass December 06, 2017 10:39 AM  

Howard Stone wrote:But Trump doesnt have decades, he has three to seven years to build the wall, the next democrat or neocon to get in office will stop it.

@11 The real question is once he wins a second term (I have no doubt that he will) and completes the wall, will it be torn down once he has exited office?

Nate wrote:We have some excellent prototypes for The Wall. As I said on twitter... build the wall today of concrete and steel... or built it later out of invaders.

@27 CBP has started formal testing as of Monday.

Phelps wrote:The people who are losing their shit today are the same morons who were losing their shit in 1946 when Truman recognized Israel in the first place, and it will have the same results.

@42 Yep.

bobby wrote:"In a momentous shift of United States foreign policy in the Middle East, President Donald Trump is set to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel . . . "

Wasn't the actual momentous shift back in June, when the Senate voted 90-0 - 90-0! - to direct Trump to do this very thing?

I get a kick out of the MSM now presenting this as Trump's stupid evil decision to start war.


@45 My thoughts exactly on the 90-0!

Rabbi B wrote:JohnofAustria wrote:My gripe is that Jerusalem does not belong to the Pharisees, but to the Israel of God, the Christian church.

(((FACEPALM)))


@49 LOL at the triple parentheses!

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 10:39 AM  

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-usa-turkey/turkey-says-declaring-jerusalem-israels-capital-will-start-fire-with-no-end-in-sight-idUSKBN1E00YW?il=0

https://apnews.com/4e658c25450a460c80d4f2d9ac38a632/Warnings-intensify-as-Trump-readies-Jerusalem-declaration

http://www.france24.com/en/20171206-erdogan-calls-islamic-summit-next-week-jerusalem

Blogger Lazarus December 06, 2017 10:39 AM  

1867: English Royal Engineers begin survey of Jerusalem. Westerners and diaspora Jews start pouring in.

1917: Gen.Allenby liberates Jerusalem from the Ottoman Empire

1967: Israel reunifies Jerusalem, declares it the capital.

2017: The Empire of the day recognizes Jerusalem as the capital (best wait for official announcement)

Anonymous johnc December 06, 2017 10:41 AM  

@52 You're out of your depth here and the prophet Ezekiel, just to name one, disagrees with you. Your argument is invalid.

Yeah, yeah, whatever... Everyone and his brother has his own interpretation of the Bible and everyone thinks his is the right one.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:45 AM  

Ezekiel, just to name one

Ezekiel's Temple isn't on Earth.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 10:45 AM  

We can agree to disagree .....

Don't be such a pussy.

...but I am not out of my depth by any stretch of your imagination.

It doesn't take a huge stretch. You are. Read Ezekiel 40-48 for starters.

Since Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law and the prophets, since the veil was rent by God himself, FOREVER breaking the most important aspect of the temple's purpose--the separation and controlled access to the Holy of Holies and God's presence--and since the physical temple was destroyed in that generation because the sacrificial aspect was no longer valid, Christ paid the debt of all, you do the math.

Do you know what "fulfill" means in Koine Greek? Do you understand what "fulfill" means in a Jewish context?

Hint: Fulfill does not mean "abolish" or "do away with" or "alter". Like I said, your out of your depth. My math is fine. Two plus two still does not equal five.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 10:46 AM  

Arthur Isaac wrote:Ezekiel, just to name one

Ezekiel's Temple isn't on Earth.


Some days there just aren't enough faces to palm. God help us.

Blogger Lazarus December 06, 2017 10:47 AM  

Putin recognized WEST Jerusalem as Israel's capital back in April, with the caveat that East Jerusalem is to be the capital of the 23rd Arab state.

Israel, of course sees Jerusalem as undivided.

Will be interesting to see if Trump recognizes an undivided Jerusalem.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:49 AM  

Yeah, yeah, whatever... Everyone and his brother has his own interpretation of the Bible and everyone thinks his is the right one.

If everyone had a different opinion on the route to Grandma's would that keep you from getting in your car?

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:51 AM  

Some days there just aren't enough faces to palm. God help us.

What part of "desolation" are you not getting?

Anonymous bbgkb December 06, 2017 10:54 AM  

I hope our Jewish friends, neighbors, colleagues, and relatives can now make aliyah like they've always dreamed and Make Israel Great Again.

Are you still a Zionist if you want them to make Aliyah to be a pox upon their own house? Asking for a friend.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:55 AM  

Do you know what "fulfill" means in Koine Greek? Do you understand what "fulfill" means in a Jewish context?

That God is going to stop playing around with models made by children. We have things here that represent what exists in heaven, the Temple and Tabernacle were representations and they have served there purpose. Time to go up to the REAL one.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 10:57 AM  


'Israel, of course sees Jerusalem as undivided.'

Well Israel has shit tons of tanks and they are backed up by nukes and a modern airforce. So yeah. Palestine has impressionable young boys and suicide vests.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 10:59 AM  

"That God is going to stop playing around with models made by children. We have things here that represent what exists in heaven, the Temple and Tabernacle were representations and they have served there purpose. Time to go up to the REAL one."

dude. No.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 10:59 AM  

'Israel, of course sees Jerusalem as undivided.'

So does God.

Anonymous VFM #6306 December 06, 2017 11:01 AM  

Moses had a noble desire to establish his faithful people in the Promised Land.

He got 40 years of wandering around with morons in the desert, and then died instead.

This thread has helped me to understand exactly how this sort of thing can happen.

My condolences, Vox.

Next year on Wordpress!

Anonymous b3k December 06, 2017 11:03 AM  

Dispensationalism exegetes the headlines more than the Scriptures leading to being so often comically wrong. We should abandon an interpretive scheme invented in the 1800s by mystics. The temple in Ezekiel 40ff has always been understood by Christians, esp Protestants, to be a symbol.

Henry, on 47:1-23:
These waters signify the gospel of Christ, which went forth from Jerusalem, and spread into the countries about; also the gifts and powers of the Holy Ghost which accompanied it, by virtue of which is spread far, and produced blessed effects. Christ is the Temple; and he is the Door; from him the living waters flow, out of his pierced side.

Gill, on 47:2:
So Bartenora (c), who understands this gate of the water gate, interprets the right side of the south; and observes, that the prophet first saw the waters come out very small, like the horns of a locust; but when they came to this gate, they became like water as it flows out of the mouth of a small pitcher: and from this whole account of the waters, it is plain they cannot be understood literally, but figuratively; and which confirm this to be the sense of the whole vision.

Anonymous Faceless December 06, 2017 11:06 AM  

As to rebuilding a temple: Unless they see the man in the linen ephod, they've got not Haggai, they're in the same clueless spot as the Maccabees.

As to the reality of whose city: It's called Hezekiah's Tunnel, not Sanballat's Tunnel.

Blogger wrf3 December 06, 2017 11:14 AM  

Arthur Isaac wrote:"The most ignored Chapter in the Bible by dispensationalists."

"What is Galatians 4?"

""That's it. Congratulations".


Actually, it's Romans 4 (specifically, verse 13a).

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 11:16 AM  

"Unless they see the man in the linen ephod, they've got not Haggai, they're in the same clueless spot as the Maccabees. "

They are waiting on a sign. particularly what they are waiting on is red heifer without blemish... which they decided means it literally does not have a single white hair on it. To give you an idea about this... apparently back around 2000 they thought they had found one.. but eventually they found 3 white hairs on it.

That's how close they came to razing the Dome of the Rock.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 11:21 AM  

This is almost as entertaining as that time when the Rabbis lost their sh!t after Jesus told the people that He would destroy the Temple and in 3 days build it up again. The munchkins are just to pedantically literal to understand anything.

Isaiah used a tile and burned sh!t in the street to represent Jerusalem because that was the only way to draw a picture for some people.

Blogger James December 06, 2017 11:22 AM  

William Meisheid wrote:"the metaphysical relationship between God and man changed at the cross"? Not according to the Jews who shall be the ones to rebuild the Temple.

Only the Jews who rejected their Messiah would consider doing this. .


Is there any other kind of jew?

William Meisheid wrote:
Remember that all the first Christians where Jews and on Paul's missionary journeys he when to Synagogues to preach about Jesus Christ.


Actually, many were Galileans, many were Samaritans (Samaria was once the Northern Kingdom of Israel before the Assyrian captivity. There were many descendents of Israelites still there). There is a profound misunderstanding among Churchianists these days who have no understanding of the difference between jews and Israelites. The word jew comes from words that mean Judean, or resident of Judea. This could be descendents of Israel, or Edomites, or Babylonians, or any of the mixed multitude brought in by the Assyrians. Modern use of the term jew can be racial or religious, depending on the degree of understanding of Scofield blinded Christians. And today’s jews are not Israelites, either racially or religiously. By their own admission, they are descendents of the Pharisees, who were those that said they were Judeans and were not, but were a SYNOGOGUE of Satan, and conspired to kill the Messiah.

Concerning prophecy and the book of Revelation: I am convinced that when people finally see what is described in Revelation they will declare, “Oh, so that’s what he meant!” Then, under their breath, they’ll say, “Would have been nice if it had been explained better….Arrrrgggghhhh”.

Blogger David Power December 06, 2017 11:23 AM  

Gods chosen people hate Supremisists.

Blogger Lazarus December 06, 2017 11:23 AM  

Read Ezekiel 40-48 for starters.

Though this temple appears in a highly symbolic book, there is much reason to believe that it is an actual, physical reality, and not a merely spiritual phenomenon. Firstly, this temple building is described in precise detail, rather than loose symbolic terms. The exact measurements of the wall (40:5), the court (40:47) and the sanctuary (41:4), as well as all the other elements of the construction, are provided for the reader. What would be the point of such an exercise, if the place does not actually exist? Furthermore, the description is intensely visual (41:6-7). Such painstaking, point-by-point consideration invites comparison, not to purely symbolic visions such as the four beasts seen by Daniel (Dan. 7) or the scarlet woman of John's apocalypse (Rev. 17), but to the Pentateuchal pattern for the Tabernacle (Ex. 25:8ff) -- an inarguably literal building. Most importantly, Ezekiel is told to describe the temple he has seen to the people of Israel, and if they are ashamed and repent, to show them the exact plans and measurements -- why? -- "so that they may be faithful to its design" (43:10-11).


Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 11:24 AM  

As far as I can tell, the Temple can be rebuilt, and it would still have the same functions, but it would serve no meaningful purpose beyond being symbolic and fulfilling prophecy since those functions are already filled more efficiently.

Unless I'm missing some legitimate function?

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 06, 2017 11:27 AM  

Living stones , as someone quoted above.

When heaven is described on scripture, the furnishings seem to be PEOPLE.

People are, after all, the pivotal issue under contention when we discuss worship.

To him who overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God.

Either he’s promising his followers the same fate as Lot’s wife, or people have some wrong ideas about heaven?

Blogger Aeoli Pera December 06, 2017 11:29 AM  

JohnofAustria wrote:My gripe is that Jerusalem does not belong to the Pharisees, but to the Israel of God, the Christian church.

Just go straight to hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 06, 2017 11:30 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 06, 2017 11:32 AM  

The jihadis are going to be seriously triggered. I’d put this down to a plan to ensure there’s nobody left in the West in any doubt that Islam has to be crushed ruthlessly.

Anonymous fop December 06, 2017 11:32 AM  

The third temple implements are ready to go and sitting in the temple institute. They just finished the altar in 2015.

This is happening.

Blogger Resident Moron™ December 06, 2017 11:34 AM  

Aye. He should read Hebrews 11; the faithful ate strangers here and look for a city whose maker and builder is God.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 11:36 AM  

As far as the Jews rebuilding the temple... if that's by spirit, sure, it's possible.

If it's the Jews by blood though? They don't exist anymore as far as I can tell.

All of those who would qualify as both blood and faithful would have been gathered in Jerusalem for Passover in 70 AD, where the Romans slaughtered them, which is also foretold by Jesus and prophesied in Revelation.

To me, this even in itself is symbolic. The original Passover involved the people of God being covered in the blood of the Lamb so that the Angel of Death would pass over them while taking the Egyptians.

In 70 AD, those who had not accepted the new covenant (and the blood of the actual Lamb rather than a symbolic one) had gone for 40 years without being covered by the blood of the Lamb. When Passover came and they were not covered over, they were all killed as should occur per the original event.

Blogger DonReynolds December 06, 2017 11:36 AM  

There are 86 official embassies in Israel. All of them are in Tel Aviv and none are in Jerusalem. Since 1986, there have been two countries that had an embassy in Jerusalem and both announced in 2006, they were also moving to Tel Aviv.....Costa Rica and El Salvador.

In 1979-80, I was a volunteer in the (John) Connally Presidential Campaign and the big event that drove Governor Connally from the race was his Middle East Policy. He said that US policy in the Middle East should be whatever is best for the United States, no matter who likes it, no matter whether anyone else approves, and no matter who it favors. The Jewish press raked him over the coals and dogged him at every press conference. Suddenly, he was reported to be an anti-semite, an Israel hater, pro-Arab, and an oil whore. None of these things were true, but it was shocking at the time to see the media savage the idea that American policy in the Middle East should be patriotic and what is best for the American people.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2017 11:38 AM  

Meisheid's understanding is the conventional Catholic one, and I believe the Orthodox and Lutheran understanding as well. You may disagree, but he is neither self-evidently wrong, nor "out of his depth."
When you Protties come up with novel interpretations, it's up to you to justify them, not to all get together in a hug circle and cluck like disapproving hens.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 11:42 AM  

@Azure, there sure are a whole heck of a lot of people calling themselves Jews living over there in Israel who would disagree with you.

Anonymous Cyclone Bob December 06, 2017 11:47 AM  

Nate: That's how close they came to razing the Dome of the Rock


They should start razing. As long as it hosts a gold-plated altar to Satan on its Temple Mount, Jerusalem should not be recognized as a Jewish capital, much less a Jewish city.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 11:49 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Meisheid's understanding is the conventional Catholic one, and I believe the Orthodox and Lutheran understanding as well. You may disagree, but he is neither self-evidently wrong, nor "out of his depth."

When you Protties come up with novel interpretations, it's up to you to justify them, not to all get together in a hug circle and cluck like disapproving hens.


It's the conventional dispensational view and demonstrates that he doesn't and other adherents do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. In short it's sloppy and careless theology, Catholic, Orthodox, Luthern or otherwise.

It's not hard to tell when the Bible is speaking symbolically or metaphorically. The Bible is very good about indicating when this is so and when it is not.

When starting with any Bible text, the p'shat, i.e. the plain meaning, is where we start. There is no reason to disrupt or compromise the plain meaning of Ezekiel's vision, which many dispensationals are wont to do with alacrity that is almost unparalleled.

Blogger DonReynolds December 06, 2017 11:54 AM  

Cyclone Bob wrote:Nate: That's how close they came to razing the Dome of the Rock

They should start razing. As long as it hosts a gold-plated altar to Satan on its Temple Mount, Jerusalem should not be recognized as a Jewish capital, much less a Jewish city.


Unlike any other city, Jerusalem was a new city, built in the middle of nowhere, by King David, to be his capital in ancient Israel. He did this because various tribes were jealous of each other and had he selected an existing city in Israel, it would be said that he was favoring one tribe over the others. Yes, Jerusalem is a Jewish city.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 11:58 AM  

calling themselves Jews

"Revelation 2:9 KJV
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Rev 2:9

"Revelation 3:9 KJV
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee." Rev 3:9

None so blind as those who refuse to see.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Real Men correct Nate ... 's ... speeling ◕‿◕ ... ◔ ⌣ ◔ ... ◕‿↼ Passive Aggressively ) December 06, 2017 11:58 AM  

71. Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 10:51 AM
What part of "desolation" are you not getting?




what part of "the Temple will be rebuilt by the Synagogue of Satan" are you not getting?

we're not saying that the Temple needs to rebuilt in order to worship God. and the idea that you would so willfully misread the Dispensationalist position in order to arrive at that interpretation indicates that you are a knowing Liar.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 11:59 AM  

@Aeoli Pera, "Just go straight to hell, do not pass Go, do not collect $200."

I can't argue either side of this. You're both going too far as far as I can tell.


I'm not sure that Jerusalem is supposed to belong to Christians. The New Jerusalem, sure.


As for Jerusalem belonging to the Jews... there's the trick. Jew is a relatively new translation of "Judahite" or "Judaic" as per Judah, one of the sons of Abraham. Most of the ten tribes that god sent to take the land (both of Israel and on the west side of the {euphrates?}) were dispersed by Assyria and basically disappeared as far as bloodlines. Those that reabsorbed would have reabsorbed into Judah, because Judah/Levi/Benjamin were the only bloodlines remaining considered sufficiently pure, and they lived in Judaea.

The tribe of Judah, however, possessed Judaea rather than Israel. The Levites and a large portion of the Benjamites also returned from captivity and dwelt in Judaea.

Now, Judah and all his descendants were themselves descendants of Shem, or "Shemites" (the origin of the modern word "Semite" iirc). Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are descendants of Japheth rather than Shem, and are not actually "Judahites" at all by blood, although apparently they converted to the "Jewish" faith around 750 AD or later.

As Japhethites rather than Judahites, they have no claim to the physical land of Jerusalem by blood. I don't know whether or not God would consider the spirit sufficient in this matter, but even if he did, if they do not accept the Messiah then they are not even spiritually faithful Jews. So...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 12:03 PM  

"It's not hard to tell when the Bible is speaking symbolically or metaphorically. The Bible is very good about indicating when this is so and when it is not."

I'm not seeing the dispensationalism in someone saying that people who accept the symbol but reject the actual are SOL.

Yes, fulfillment is in line with the old law, but those who reject fulfillment are actually rejecting the old law as well.

"what part of "the Temple will be rebuilt by the Synagogue of Satan" are you not getting?"

This I can definitely agree with.

Blogger allyn71 December 06, 2017 12:03 PM  

Moses had a noble desire to establish his faithful people in the Promised Land.

He got 40 years of wandering around with morons in the desert, and then died instead.

This thread has helped me to understand exactly how this sort of thing can happen.

My condolences, Vox.

Next year on Wordpress!


Thread winner and sums up today at VP perfectly.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 12:03 PM  

When you Protties come up with novel interpretations, it's up to you to justify them

Dispensationalism was a concoction of the counter-reformation Jesuits. Ribera and Lacunza, and later picked up by Darby and Scofield with funding by the (((Lotus Club))).

It was sold to the cucked protties when the Jews bought up the Bible colleges.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 12:05 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 12:06 PM  

Double Derp.

Blogger Were-Puppy December 06, 2017 12:07 PM  

@47 Arthur Isaac
That said, Trump is again exposing the insanity of his enemies by provoking with ridiculous ease.
---

He's poking one of the lefties and muslims most sacred of cows in the eye.

Let the muslims and jews fight each other and leave the rest of us alone. I know that won't happen but it's a nice thought :P

Earlier David Knight was saying that what's going to happen now is every terrorist attack going forward will be blamed on Trump. Because of this decision. Who cares? They blame everything on Russia now and nobody is buying it.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 12:09 PM  

we're not saying that the Temple needs to rebuilt in order to worship God. and the idea that you would so willfully misread the Dispensationalist position in order to arrive at that interpretation indicates that you are a knowing Liar.

Try again. Dispensationalists are counting on worship in the temple in Jerusalem, they're counting on 144k Jewish virgins to complete the work that Jesus completed on the Cross. If you listen to them rattle their fictions for 5 minutes you'll pick this up. Abomination that causes desolation? As if God would place His presence in that sh!thole to begin with.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2017 12:10 PM  

It's the conventional dispensational view and demonstrates that he doesn't and other adherents do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God.
Or perhaps Dispensationalism, a bizarre novelty in Christian thought, is wrong, and demonstrates a Biblical exegesis that is at once self-laudatory and pig-ignorant.
The old "everone who doesn't agree with my (historically) novel interpretation is both stupid and a bad person" is typical, but it doesn't fly.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 12:11 PM  

Why do people get so crazy about eschatology? Does it change your eternal destination?

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 12:12 PM  

Or perhaps Dispensationalism, a bizarre novelty in Christian thought, is wrong, and demonstrates a Biblical exegesis that is at once self-laudatory and pig-ignorant.

You are not wrong.

Blogger Jew613 December 06, 2017 12:18 PM  

I believe His Majesty will be remembered like Cyrus the Great, a righteous King.

Nate, we can have 2 non-red hairs on the para adumah. We are still trying and we've gotten pretty close. You should check out the Temple Institute, they are preparing to rebuild the Temple many of the vessels have already been constructed.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 12:19 PM  

Why tho

Blogger James December 06, 2017 12:19 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:As far as the Jews rebuilding the temple... if that's by spirit, sure, it's possible.

If it's the Jews by blood though? They don't exist anymore as far as I can tell.



Again, this is a misunderstanding by most Christians due to deliberate obfuscation. Here’s the concept: Adam had descendents. They are listed in Genesis. Time goes by until Noah and his family. Noah had descendents. These are also listed in Genesis. Time passes. Abraham is born and begets Isaac, who begets Jacob. Yahweh changed Jacob’s name to Israel (Genesis 35:10). So, anyone that is a pure blooded descendent of Israel is an Israelite. However, this is complicated by two issues. One, by Deuteronomy 23:2, "A bastard shall not enter into the assembly of Yahweh; even to the tenth generation shall none of his enter into the assembly of Yahweh". The term bastard here is from the Hebrew word mamzer, meaning a mongrel. Someone that was not “kind after kind”. So, anyone descended of anyone not an Israelite cannot be an Israelite. We can argue, if you want, whether or not they would be in the 11th generation (I personally think it wouldn’t happen, but….). The second complication is that Israel (the northern 10 tribes) separated from Judah (the southern tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) after the death of Solomon. So, you have references that refer to those Israelites after that event that applies only to those that were taken into the Assyrian captivity, and any that were left in Israel the Assyrians missed.

And what about “Judeans”? Who were “Judeans” when the Messiah walked the earth? The descendents of the 42,360 that returned from the Babylonian captivity, along with Canaanites, Edomites, Arabs, any remaining Israelites that escaped the captivity, and anyone that was planted there by the Babylonians. The returning 42,360 probably kept their lineage pure, at least until the time of the Maccabees, around 167 BC. The Maccabees FORCED conversion to the Law of Moses on the kingdom, something that was in violation of the Law. So, after 167 BC, the possibility that you actually had pure blooded descendents of Israel that were “jews” becomes increasingly remote.

Today, you have two racial groups of jews. The Ashkenazi, those of Khazarian ancestry from Europe, and the Shephardic, those that remained in the Middle East and also the descendents of the royal family and others that migrated to Spain. Mathematically, the probability that anyone in either line is a pure blooded descendent of Israel is astronomical. This being said, the only real meanings the word jew can have in 2017 is either a practitioner of the jewish religion, or mixed breed descendents of practitioners of the jewish religion. And since the modern jewish religion is the direct progeny of the religion of the Pharisees, there is no remaining connection between the jews and Israel.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt01.html

You know how the Messiah felt about Pharisees, don’t you?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 12:24 PM  

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, James. You're actually saying what I was trying to say in better quantity, depth, and breadth and also in superior accuracy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2017 12:27 PM  

So they can resume the Temple sacrifice.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 12:33 PM  

"Unlike any other city, Jerusalem was a new city, built in the middle of nowhere, by King David, to be his capital in ancient Israel. "


no.

Jerusalem literally comes from Jebu.. and Salem. Two towns that were in the place where Jerusalem is now.

Blogger Beau December 06, 2017 12:34 PM  

Ezekiel's Temple isn't on Earth.

It will be.

Anonymous Ages December 06, 2017 12:35 PM  

Fulfill does not mean "abolish" or "do away with" or "alter".
A requirement that is fulfilled does not need to be subsequently fulfilled again. In Christ all the the requirements of the law are completed, and thus are "passed away and become obsolete."

antichrist will be worshipped in the Temple. So, one would infer from that interpretation that the Temple will be rebuilt at some point, and Jerusalem being recognized by the world community as the capitol of Israel sets the stage for that to happen.
Antichrist was worshipped in the temple after the death of Christ until the fall of Jerusalem.

Reminder that BABYLON THE GREAT in the Book of Revelation was Jerusalem. Much of Revelation was fulfilled in the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Some remains prophetic, but it's certainly not a play-by-play of future events like the comical Left Behind series promotes.

Anonymous Tipsy December 06, 2017 12:36 PM  

What's interesting is that when both Bush and Obama stated their intentions that Jerusalem be recognized as the capital of Israel, the world yawned. When Trump does it, it quakes.

Why? Because unlike his feckless predecessors, Trump follows through on what he says.

Anonymous DissidentRight December 06, 2017 12:43 PM  

Rabbi B wrote:Arthur Isaac wrote:Ezekiel, just to name one

Ezekiel's Temple isn't on Earth.


Some days there just aren't enough faces to palm. God help us.


Is there a resource you can point to that gives more depth to your views, particularly to an amillennialist?

For example, if the Ezekiel prophesy is meant to be taken as temporal and literal, how does it square with Romans 9-11 and in particular Hebrews? Ezekiel talks about temple sacrifices, which are supposed to be obviated by Christ. In human terms, Ezekiel mentions all 12 of the landed tribes plus Levi, but as far as I know the post-Babylonian remnant consisted mainly of Judah, Levi, Benjamin, with at most trace amounts of the other tribes.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 12:44 PM  

@Ages, sorry but antichrist has not come on the world scene yet. When he does it will not be a secret. He will reveal himself and demand to be worshipped by everyone. When he goes into the temple it will be a public event and everyone will know of it. Many people have and continue to worship the spirit of antichrist, but, the antichrist who will be flesh and blood is still to come. This did not happen in 70 A.D.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 12:45 PM  

Ages wrote:Fulfill does not mean "abolish" or "do away with" or "alter".

A requirement that is fulfilled does not need to be subsequently fulfilled again. In Christ all the the requirements of the law are completed, and thus are "passed away and become obsolete."


OK. So, by your logic, since I obeyed (fulfilled) my parents rules growing up, now my kids don't have to?

Jesus' obedience to the Torah does not preclude anyone else's.

“If you love me, keep my commands...This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome..." (cf. John; I John; Psalm 19; Psalm 119)

Anonymous Chris December 06, 2017 12:49 PM  

It's really very simple. Have the oceans turned to blood and every living thing in them died? No? Then 70AD was not the End of Days. Ignoring very clearly stated Bible verses because men in the 1800s were also wrong does not make you right.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 12:50 PM  

Was Jesus keeping The Law in our place, or just individually, so He would be an appropriate sacrifice for us?

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 12:51 PM  

"It will be."

Amen and Amen.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 12:52 PM  

"OK. So, by your logic, since I obeyed (fulfilled) my parents rules growing up, now my kids don't have to?"

That analogy is intentionally terrible.

A more accurate analogy would be "Since I already paid my bills via the internet, I don't need to mail in checks."

You know perfectly well that generations are cyclic, and you latched on to the next generation. Even withing your analogy, the statement "now my kids don't have to" is obviously not analogous. It would be more accurate (though still not a very good analogy) to say "I am grown, and I am following my parents' instruction so well that I no longer require them to instruct me".

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 12:55 PM  

@Chris, Revelation obviously covers multiple future events. While the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD was clearly one of them, that does not mean that other events are not prophesied. It is also entirely possible that Jerusalem will be destroyed again in much the same way, since some prophesies are fulfilled repeatedly.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 12:55 PM  

Brothers I would ask that you consider that when you are asking questions like "Is the Temple of the Spirit or is it a real physical structure?" that there is a pattern in the Bible repeated often.

We think in terms of either or. But the Bible is often teaching the lesson of Both And.

Is Jesus man or God? Either or? No. Both And.

Is Mary a virgin or a mother? Either or? No. Both And.

Did Jesus die or is He alive? Either or? No. Both And.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 12:55 PM  

Is there a resource you can point to that gives more depth to your views, particularly to an amillennialist?

Ezekiel 40-48.

Ezekiel talks about temple sacrifices, which are supposed to be obviated by Christ.

Start here. I believe this is one of the reasons people relegate these chapters to metaphor and symbolism. It is a very uncomfortable and difficult idea whose meaning is challenging to unpack.

There is no doubt that the blood of bulls and goats is not efficacious for removing sin, so how do we understand Ezekiel's statements and others without compromising the plain meaning of the text ...?

I would suggest starting by going back the the binding of Issac and get a good understanding of what was happening there ... get a good solid understanding of how the sacrifices worked in the tabernacle and according to the Torah ... until then, many of these things in Ezekiel 40-48 are going to be unintelligible, as will Hebrews and Romans, etc.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 12:58 PM  

"Was Jesus keeping The Law in our place, or just individually, so He would be an appropriate sacrifice for us?"

well are ya reading Mathew or Luke?

Matthew is all about community and the collective. Luke is more individual focusing on the least, last, and lost.

To reference my other comment. the answer is Both And.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 12:58 PM  

Embrace the power of and

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 12:59 PM  

Was Jesus keeping The Law in our place, or just individually, so He would be an appropriate sacrifice for us?

He was not keeping it in our place. At the very least he was setting an example of obedience for us. Just because we d-d not do it perfectly as he did does not mean that we abdicate our responsibility to walk in obedience to our Heavenly Father just as He did. We are supposed to be imitators of the Messiah.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Real Men correct Nate ... 's ... speeling ◕‿◕ ... ◔ ⌣ ◔ ... ◕‿↼ Passive Aggressively ) December 06, 2017 12:59 PM  

109. Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 12:09 PM
they're counting on 144k Jewish virgins



and now you're lying again. i have never once in my life ( and i'm 50 ) heard a sermon declaiming that remnants of the Tribe would be virgins.

it's the Catholic Church that has the bizarre fascination with the virginity of it's practitioners. Prots and Jews have no problem with marriage or with the BIBLICAL REQUIREMENTS that the Patriarchs of flock be married.

i also find it odd that i'm being castigated for having read Revelation.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 1:00 PM  

"get a good solid understanding of how the sacrifices worked in the tabernacle and according to the Torah"

this. A thousand times this.

You cannot understand the New Testament if you don't understand the Old Testament.

Without the context... none of it makes a lick of sense.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:00 PM  

And also who the writers were and who their audiences were.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:01 PM  

The Old Testament is a schoolmaster

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 1:01 PM  

Obedience does not effect salvation, it is a response and an outflow of salvation and an expression of our love for Him. If you love Me, you will obey me ...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 1:01 PM  

"antichrist has not come on the world scene yet. When he does"

Howard, you might want to consume more Bible and less popular entertainment.

If you had said "The Beast" or "The False Prophet" we might have some sort of argument here, but saying "he, antichrist" shows something of a lack of understanding. "Antichrist" is definitely a recurrent prophesy. So recurrent, in fact, that it usually is recurring multiple times simultaneously. Even First and Second John will tell you, straight out, that there are multiple antichrists.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:01 PM  

How then are we justified?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:03 PM  

You are not saved because you keep my commandments, you keep my commandments because you are saved.

Effect, not cause.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 1:03 PM  

Just to be clear, nothing I have said is 'dispensationalist' which I am not. By the way, fulfill means to bring to completion. The purpose of the original Temple was fulfilled, brought to completion by Christ on the cross as proved by the Father ripping the open the veil (man was no longer separated from God) and the completion of the Son's prophecy by the complete destruction of the Temple (not a stone on a stone) since the sacrificial system was completed by Christ's blood. We are now the Temple of God and at the same the stones with which the true Temple is built from. That is not a Dispensational view, but a biblical one and the reality of what Christ accomplished.

One interesting way to look at the descendants of Abraham after the crucifixion is how Paul looks at them in Romans 11. They were cut off from the original olive and we were grated in. Who are we? Though sometimes lumped into the collective Gentiles, we are the many nations of Revelation that come and bring our honor to the LORD, the many nations a that worship before the throne in white robes.

When they are grafted back in, as Paul surmises, they are another nation among the many others as part of the cultivated olive. We all become one olive tree with many branches (nations) that includes the descendants of Abraham who have seen him whom they have pierced and accept him as Lord and Savior just as we do, which is the only way to become grafted in.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 1:03 PM  

sorry but antichrist has not come on the world scene yet

2 Thessalonians 2:7.

He answers to Ein Sof.

Anonymous johnc December 06, 2017 1:04 PM  

@111 Why do people get so crazy about eschatology? Does it change your eternal destination?

Ohh it certainly can. Look at all the idiots in America (like John Hagee) that are working overtime to empower the anti-Church ("Israel") and think that they're actually worshiping God.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 1:07 PM  

"i have never once in my life ( and i'm 50 ) heard a sermon declaiming that remnants of the Tribe would be virgins."

To be fair, I have actually heard that 144,000 virgins thing somewhere before. Yes, it's still absurd of him to throw it in here.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 1:08 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:How then are we justified?

By emunah, by faith as Abraham was (cf. Romans 3ff.) The Torah was never intended to justify anyone, It serves another purpose: how do I live my life down here as a justified person? What does God expect of me as a justified person? What does a justified life look like.

James is also very good ... the discussion about faith and works ... that I will demonstrate my faith by the things that I DO etc. The commandents are about sanctification, not justification. The law is spiritual (cf. Romans) but we are not. The Torah justifies no one, because that was never its purpose. But it's not the Torah or the Law that is condemned, it is the misuse and abuse of the Torah which is censured.

Paul writes to Timothy that the Law is good .. if one uses it properly ...

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 1:10 PM  

"He answers to Ein Sof."

Kabbalistic "Endless Light". More like Angel of Light... One spirit, many faces.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 1:11 PM  

Just to be clear, nothing I have said is 'dispensationalist' which I am not.

A dispensationalist would call you a "supersessionist" because you rightly believe that the Body of Christ supersedes the Jewish people as God's covenant people. They mangle the Bible to make Jesus a liar when He stated that HE is the only way to the Father. Jesus proclaimed that there was a new covenant in His blood and the (Judaizers) defecate on that every chance they get. (((They))) hated Jesus and so do their paid followers. (((They))) want to pretend the old covenant hasn't been annulled, because God has to marry the whore.

OpenID widlast December 06, 2017 1:11 PM  

@118
"Jerusalem literally comes from Jebu.. and Salem. Two towns that were in the place where Jerusalem is now."

No!

Jerusalem literally means "city of peace"
jeru = abode/city, salem = peace

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:11 PM  

Did Jesus die for the sin of MPAI?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:13 PM  

So the most defensible and strategic spot in that area would be left alone for hundreds of years until David shows up?

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 1:16 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Did Jesus die for the sin of MPAI?

Isn't that the unpardonable sin?

Anonymous fop December 06, 2017 1:17 PM  

Trump just threw the Dome of the Rock under the bus.

It's on.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:18 PM  

Some have said

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 1:18 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 1:19 PM  

@Arthur Isaac, I can’t take you seriously anymore. I really don’t think you understand what the people here are talking about half the time. You make vague protestations about comments and throw around the words heresy and dispensationaliam, but you never clearly state your own position neither do you ever clearly state your objections to others’.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 1:20 PM  

"Jerusalem literally means "city of peace"
jeru = abode/city, salem = peace"


Dude.

Stop. You either never went to sunday school or you failed it.

Wait... hold on... third option. Are you a baptist?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:21 PM  

I missed it. What happened?

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 1:21 PM  

NABALT

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 1:22 PM  

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pope-francis-defends-jerusalem-status-quo-095403674.html

commie pope is unhappy. That means we're winning.

Anonymous DissidentRight December 06, 2017 1:22 PM  

Rabbi:

Jesus' obedience to the Torah does not preclude anyone else's.

I don’t think anyone in the early church objected to the Jewish Christians voluntarily continuing the various traditions from the Law, or for those traditions to voluntarily inform the Gentiles. Of course they settled the matter of compulsion in several places (such as Acts 15).

There is no doubt that the blood of bulls and goats is not efficacious for removing sin, so how do we understand Ezekiel's statements and others without compromising the plain meaning of the text …?

I have no idea. Obviously it is easier to compromise the plain meaning. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right.

I would suggest starting by going back the the binding of Issac and get a good understanding of what was happening there ... get a good solid understanding of how the sacrifices worked in the tabernacle and according to the Torah ... until then, many of these things in Ezekiel 40-48 are going to be unintelligible, as will Hebrews and Romans, etc.

My pastor’s most fascinating Bible study was on Leviticus. On the other hand, my pastor would argue (with the whole LCMS) that Hebrews, Romans, etc. still make perfect sense if Ezekiel’s prophesy is rendered essentially figurative. But that is hardly a satisfying answer considering Ezekiel’s remarkable attention to literal details.

He was not keeping it in our place.

Not that you would disagree with any of this: Jesus kept the Law in our place for purposes of our justification, not for the purpose that we could live in sin. No one but Christ has attained righteousness through the Law, and he didn’t just do it for himself, but for all of us.

Blogger William Meisheid December 06, 2017 1:24 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother wrote:Did Jesus die for the sin of MPAI?

For all including me, you, and MPAIs; even cucks and SJWs for many build on the sure foundation of Christ with wood, hay, and stubble and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 1:25 PM  

and now you're lying again. i have never once in my life ( and i'm 50 ) heard a sermon declaiming that remnants of the Tribe would be virgins.

That's a tall burden of proof your setting up for yourself there. Your ignorance doesn't inform mine.

You're 50 years old and haven't ever heard a dispensationalist exegete Revelation 14:4?

"These are they which are not defiled with women; for they are virgins...."

And you call me a liar?

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 1:30 PM  

But that is hardly a satisfying answer considering Ezekiel’s remarkable attention to literal details.

Precisely. Therein lies the rub.

Jesus kept the Law in our place for purposes of our justification, not for the purpose that we could live in sin.

And what is sin? It is missing the mark. What is the mark? God's Word, God's commandments.

The penalty for sin, which none of us could ever pay, is paid vicariously by Another Who is sinless; and, as you inferred, it was not paid so that we could go on sinning (cf. I John 1, Romans 7, et al).

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 1:31 PM  

See Jerusalem didn't exist before David found it....

say...

Where was Melchizedek from again?

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 1:31 PM  

@Arthur Isaac, I can’t take you seriously anymore. I really don’t think you understand what the people here are talking about half the time. You make vague protestations about comments and throw around the words heresy and dispensationaliam, but you never clearly state your own position neither do you ever clearly state your objections to others’.

You assume everyone is a Judeo-churchian. And are confused when you find someone who isn't. This is not the forum for straightening out what you have "rightly divided" and counting on the argumentum ad populum is weak sauce.

Blogger Shimshon December 06, 2017 1:45 PM  

"They are waiting on a sign. particularly what they are waiting on is red heifer without blemish... which they decided means it literally does not have a single white hair on it. To give you an idea about this... apparently back around 2000 they thought they had found one.. but eventually they found 3 white hairs on it.

That's how close they came to razing the Dome of the Rock."

Nate, less than 3 years ago a red heifer was publicized in a small New Jersey farm. Soon, 30000 Jews came by to check it out (it was near Lakewood). However at some point it gave birth, which also invalidates it.

Anonymous Gen. Kong December 06, 2017 1:46 PM  

It will interesting to see which of the Musloids are truly pissed off over what - after all - is merely an acknowledgement of reality on the ground. Jerusalem fell to Israeli forces in 1967, so 50 years later the Fake Banana Empire finally admits it happened. As Nate mentioned, there is no Musloid army capable of taking it back, as Israel has lots of deliverable nukes and never bothered to ratify treaties governing chemical and biological weapons. The reaction of the new boss of Israel's latest good buddy, the Magic Kingdom of the House of Saud, will be most interesting of all.

As for all the worshippers of Judeo-Christ prattling on here about the spiritual significance of this, whether a temple is rebuilt or not doesn't necessarily signify anything. Who knows? Perhaps instead they'll just bulldoze the Dome of the Rock and put up the Epstein-Singer center for Early Childhood Development, with the Jerusalem HQ of Comet-PingPong Pizza taking up the lower level. That would be a temple much more in keeping with the folks who the Judeo-Christians can't wait to bow before as shabbas-goys. After all, this would be the kind of place Hi-Fellatin' Franny and the entire Vatican hierarchy would no doubt love to visit from time to time. James Levine could even conduct the band for the opening ceremonies. Maybe all of Pedowood could move there since Southern CAL seems to be on fire again.

Anonymous Looking Glass December 06, 2017 1:47 PM  

Forgive me...

Holy Cow!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine December 06, 2017 1:49 PM  

"What is the mark? God's Word, God's commandments."

The whole of the law is summed up in two commandments, which actually illuminate the purposes of the other ten.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 1:54 PM  

@Arthur Issac, whatever man, you just claimed that the antichrist has been revealed and is on the earth and you know his name, that’s weak sauce, don’t forget about 2 Thessalonians 2:8, you know, the verse that comes after 2:7.

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Real Men correct Nate ... 's ... speeling ◕‿◕ ... ◔ ⌣ ◔ ... ◕‿↼ Passive Aggressively ) December 06, 2017 1:54 PM  

164. Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 1:25 PM
"These are they which are not defiled with women; for they are virgins...."

And you call me a liar?


i apologize.

it's obviously been too long since i have attended, or read.

you are correct and it is Biblical.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 2:00 PM  

@bob

No worries. The reason I brought it up is because there is a contingent that takes Revelation literally to the point of stupid, a contingent I am overly familiar with.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 2:02 PM  

Jew613 wrote:I believe His Majesty will be remembered like Cyrus the Great, a righteous King.

Nate, we can have 2 non-red hairs on the para adumah. We are still trying and we've gotten pretty close. You should check out the Temple Institute, they are preparing to rebuild the Temple many of the vessels have already been constructed.


The Temple Institute is great. I had the privilege of spending some time with R' Richman. Dear man.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 2:07 PM  

@Arthur Issac, whatever man, you just claimed that the antichrist has been revealed and is on the earth and you know his name, that’s weak sauce, don’t forget about 2 Thessalonians 2:8, you know, the verse that comes after 2:7.

That's fine. All you have to do is tell me when is "then". Also, I don't see the Greek word for "rapture" in the white space between 2:7 and 2:8.

Anonymous Athor Pel December 06, 2017 2:10 PM  

" 136. Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 1:00 PM
"get a good solid understanding of how the sacrifices worked in the tabernacle and according to the Torah"

this. A thousand times this.

You cannot understand the New Testament if you don't understand the Old Testament.

Without the context... none of it makes a lick of sense.
"




It is what got the message through to me, got me to understand the why and how.

A young lifetime of church and sunday school in two denominations and the connections were never explicitly explained to me. I had to read it for myself with the question, "How did the death of Jesus have anything to do with my sins?" guiding the reading. Another way to ask the question, "What does blood have to do with sin?"

The day I noticed that the animal skins God gave to Adam and Eve was the first blood sacrifice was the day a big light turned on in my head.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 06, 2017 2:12 PM  

Types and shadows from the beginning

Anonymous Ages December 06, 2017 2:18 PM  

(((Rabbi))) - OK. So, by your logic, since I obeyed (fulfilled) my parents rules growing up, now my kids don't have to?

Your parents' rules are their rules. Your rules are yours.

sorry but antichrist has not come on the world scene yet.

There are many Antichrists. The Jews are Antichrist, Nero and Diocletian were Antichrists, a strong argument could be made (I am Orthodox) that the Papacy is Antichrist. Islam is Antichrist. In some ways America is Antichrist.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 2:19 PM  

@Arthur Isaac, I’m not pretrib if that’s what you think.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 2:21 PM  

@Howard Stone

Ein Sof isn't a name. How it manifests itself I am still ignorant of but I have my suspicions. I think they are waiting some type of spiritual indwelling that Jesus alluded to when He stated "I am come in my Father's name, and ye received me not: if another shall come in his own name, you will accept him" (John 5:43)

The Spirit of God is going to inhabit a corporate temple of living stones, it's only fitting that the spirit of Antichrist try to emulate by inhabiting the (((egregore))) as their Ein Sof.

Is that plainly stated enough for you Howard?

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 2:22 PM  

@Arthur Isaac, I’m not pretrib if that’s what you think.

Yes, that's what I thought. Thanks for straightening me out.

Blogger Howard Stone December 06, 2017 2:28 PM  

@Arthur Isaac, it’s certainly food for thought. I don’t have all the answers myself. Thanks for the clarification.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 2:33 PM  

'Nate, we can have 2 non-red hairs on the para adumah. We are still trying and we've gotten pretty close. You should check out the Temple Institute, they are preparing to rebuild the Temple many of the vessels have already been constructed. '

2? nice.

I'm convinced that when one is found... it will be examined and examined until its proven. Then one day boom. we all wake up to find the dome of the rock replaced by a bunch of bulldozers.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 2:35 PM  

@Arthur Isaac, it’s certainly food for thought. I don’t have all the answers myself. Thanks for the clarification.

I certainly don't. I also suspect that the "abomination that causeth desolation" isn't going to happen in the 3rd Temple which may or may not get built but may happen in the egregore. It's a temple in the (((people))) themselves.

We see in both Rev. 2:9 and 3:9 this contest for God's affection between the Church and those that call themselves Jews. He is "in the midst" of the Churches and has the other kneel at their feet.

How many sermons have you heard on that topic?

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 2:38 PM  

@179 Ages

I often hear the script "Jesus fulfilled the law because we couldn't, and we don't have to" and sundry variations on the theme.

It's not that we could not obey the Torah, it's because we would not. God is not going to give us a set of commandments that He knows we cannot do or are impossible and then punish us for our inability to do so. It's not a matter of can't but a matter of won't. Men willfully suppress the truth and are without excuse before God. Precisely why we needed a Savior.

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?”

No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

cf. Deuteronomy 30

The Torah did not redeem people, it was given to a redeemed people so that we would understand that we do not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. (cf. Deuteronomy 8)

Jesus' "fulfilling the law" does not bring it to an end or render it "dead", nor does His fulfillment mean that I am no longer obligated to obey. Words matter and the original language matters.

That word fulfill doesn't mean what you think it means.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 2:40 PM  

Fullfilling the law is about the original goal of the law in the first place.

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 06, 2017 2:44 PM  

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (Matt. 23:37-39)

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2017 2:45 PM  

I am sad that, as a Catholic, I have to agree with this assessment.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 2:46 PM  

Nate wrote:Fullfilling the law is about the original goal of the law in the first place.

Where Romans declare that the Messiah is the "end of the Law" the Greek word rendered "end" is telos. Telos means end in the sense of goal, not termination. An example in English might be "the ends do not justify the means."

Jesus' "fulfillment" fills the Torah with meaning and He is the ultimate goal or end to which the Torah is pointing. This is the sense in in the Greek texts.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2017 2:48 PM  

That is, Nates assessment that an unhappy pope means we are winning

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 2:49 PM  

To reiterate, the original goal or end of the Torah was not to justify anyone. The Torah was "powerless" in this regard. If it were not so and justification came through obedience to the Torah, there was no reason for God to send the Messiah.

Blogger Rabbi B December 06, 2017 2:50 PM  

Jesus and Paul never condemned the Torah in any way, but they certainly condemned the misuse and misapplication of it.

Blogger Nate December 06, 2017 2:53 PM  

"That is, Nates assessment that an unhappy pope means we are winning"

Fret not. Men are all flawed and popes are all men. There have been horrible Popes before. He will not be the last pope... and he likely will not even be the worst.

Anonymous Ages December 06, 2017 2:55 PM  

The Apostolic Council in Acts decreed the Law dead for Gentile Christians, except for the eating of blood.

Whatever remains in effect of the moral law is fulfilled in the command of Jesus to love God and love neighbor.

Blogger Beau December 06, 2017 2:56 PM  

You make vague protestations about comments and throw around the words heresy and dispensationaliam, but you never clearly state your own position neither do you ever clearly state your objections to others’.

You assume everyone is a Judeo-churchian. And are confused when you find someone who isn't. This is not the forum for straightening out what you have "rightly divided" and counting on the argumentum ad populum is weak sauce.

One need not assume you are any stripe of Christian to discern your tenebrous criticisms are woolly-headed nonsense.

Anonymous Ages December 06, 2017 2:57 PM  

Then one day boom. we all wake up to find the dome of the rock replaced by a bunch of bulldozers.

And then the bulldozers will be replaced by irradiated glass. If the Jews try it, the planes are not going to magically fall out of the sky as with Kirk Cameron.

OpenID widlast December 06, 2017 3:01 PM  

@Nate Did some research, we're both wrong, but you are wronger

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Jerusalem.html#.WihKZ2dKWcY

And no, not baptist.

Blogger LES December 06, 2017 3:03 PM  

Jerusalem was the capital of the Kingdom of Judah. 930 to 586 B.C.

The Kingdom of Israel was conquered and assimilated in 721 B.C.

I am only interested in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21:2

Blogger Unknown December 06, 2017 3:03 PM  

Country builds abomb from scratch in two years. Needs four to build a cursed wall?

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